Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus

[Osiris]

Re: Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus 2010

You can't really call someone an idiot just because someone else devised a way to bypass a browser on someone elses system.

What you listed, there needs to be a step by step with photos on how to do this for the average joe to follow, which is how I based the spyware guide I created.

A lot of people use javascript to perform their day to day activities.

Some people dont know how to launch a program if autorun is disabled.

Setting up a router, thats like speaking a different language to most people.

Dont run suspicious files: some files dont look as such and some people just can differentiate between the 2.

UAC is an annoying and bypassable feature and it just doesnt work.

Asking someone to set drive permissions, might as well tell them they have a computer they cant use.

Just about everything you mentioned would make for a crappy user experience for grandpa, grandma, a 10 year old, etc.

This may be the best option for you as you are more advanced but not for others.

This is just yet another reason to have these programs installed and running.

 

[Apokalipse]

Apok just about every browser has support to block Javascript now. IE has it with addons, Opera has it, Chrome, Firefox and Safari can have it as well. at least i think Safari has it. I havent used it in so long to test that out.

I'm using Chrome 5 with the built-in javascript blocking feature.
Dragon got it with a recent update (based on the Chrome 5 code. Previously it was based on Chrome 4 code)

Along with that Opera, Firefox, Chrome, Dragon, and even IE have the ability for Flash block as well. Opera there is userjs files that can do it, along with a white list. IE with the IEPro addon can do both java and flash. For the other 3 there are the extensions.

userjs files are javascript code. Flash applications/videoes require javascript to call them to begin with.
Same with HTML5 video (like on youtube); it needs javascript to call the app/video to begin with.

You can't really call someone an idiot just because someone else devised a way to bypass a browser on someone elses system.

I wasn't calling anyone an idiot.
I was saying it's the ignorance of the average user that malware/spyware writers prey on.
Ignorance literally just means lack of knowledge.

Unfortunately there can't just be a single, universal guide. Each particular user might have a different set of programs, a different router etc, which might be different in how it's configured.

A lot of people use javascript to perform their day to day activities.

Yes, and that's why it is an extremely common method of exploitation.

Some people dont know how to launch a program if autorun is disabled.

Usually when program discs are sold, they have instructions to open My Computer, explore the CD, and run the setup.exe (or whatever it's called)

Setting up a router, thats like speaking a different language to most people.

Yes, but it is what it is, whether people understand it or not.

Dont run suspicious files: some files dont look as such and some people just can differentiate between the 2.

Yes, that's because malware/spyware writers specifically go out of their way to disguise their files.

UAC is an annoying and bypassable feature and it just doesnt work.

UAC is designed to allow or not allow administrator privelages.
Whether the malware works depends on whether administrator privelages are even required.
But then if you don't run malware/spyware programs to begin with that becomes irrelevant.

Asking someone to set drive permissions, might as well tell them they have a computer they cant use.

Depends how it's set-up.

Just about everything you mentioned would make for a crappy user experience for grandpa, grandma, a 10 year old, etc.

This may be the best option for you as you are more advanced but not for others.

This is just yet another reason to have these programs installed and running.

The fact that most average people won't understand how to do all these things is not my fault. But it is what it is.

The fact that most people are ignorant is how malware/spyware writers are successful.
You instruct people to secure their system in X way, and malware writers will do something different.

If you understand that, you can watch out for the new ways malware/spyware writers will make their exploits, and actively avoid them. Hence common sense.

Computers don't think like people do. They just follow instructions. Antivirus/antimalware programs can't defend against everything. They can't force a user to configure their browser or router properly, and they don't magically know if a file is suspicious if it isn't a known threat.
People have the ability to actually think outside what they've already been told. Just that a lot of people don't.
Yes, not everyone will know how to properly secure their system, or take the time to think/research it properly. Not my fault or anyone else's. That's just how it is.

You can teach them things, but ultimately the best defense is the ability to teach/research yourself and think for yourself.

 

[KSoD]

Re: Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus 2010

Hence where 99.9% of infections come from.
It is the ignorance of the average user that malware/spyware writers have by far the most success.

This is true, but the old saying goes ignorance is bliss. This is what those users get. The bliss of the site doing what they want when they want.

I'm using Chrome 5 with the built-in javascript blocking feature.
Dragon got it with a recent update (based on the Chrome 5 code. Previously it was based on Chrome 4 code)

userjs files are javascript code. Flash applications/videoes require javascript to call them to begin with.
Same with HTML5 video (like on youtube); it needs javascript to call the app/video to begin with.

I found that Opera doesnt even need the userjs file.

opera:config>user prefs>Enable On Demand Plugin

Check the box for that and it is a built in flash block. So no need to even use a js file anymore.

I know that Opera has the ability to block javascript as well. So now it can do what Firefox and Chrome can by default.

Not trying to promote Opera or anything. I am just saying that, yet again, with some work these things can be done in just about every browser. Opera has it built in, Chrome has extensions as does Firefox. Ie can block scripts but not flash without IEPro.

So like i stated above all it comes down to is the users wanting the sites to do what they want when they want. Is it right? by no means. But the simple fact is that people would rather have the convenience of sites operating the way they want and run AV programs than anything else.

That is their right to do so. No one is stupid or an idiot for such things. They take the risk on their own system. they are not asking or telling anyone else to do what they do. It is not anyone's place to say anything bad about people who dont take these steps. Just as it isnt anyones place to say anything bad about people due to their OS of choice. Everyone has the right to choose what they want to do.

 

[Apokalipse]

Re: Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus 2010

This is true, but the old saying goes ignorance is bliss. This is what those users get. The bliss of the site doing what they want when they want.


I found that Opera doesnt even need the userjs file.

opera:config>user prefs>Enable On Demand Plugin

Check the box for that and it is a built in flash block. So no need to even use a js file anymore.

I know that Opera has the ability to block javascript as well. So now it can do what Firefox and Chrome can by default.

Not trying to promote Opera or anything. I am just saying that, yet again, with some work these things can be done in just about every browser. Opera has it built in, Chrome has extensions as does Firefox. Ie can block scripts but not flash without IEPro.

Yes I wasn't implying Opera couldn't do it. I was just saying that blocking javascript also stops flash from loading anyway, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

So like i stated above all it comes down to is the users wanting the sites to do what they want when they want. Is it right? by no means. But the simple fact is that people would rather have the convenience of sites operating the way they want and run AV programs than anything else.

Yes, there's nothing wrong with wanting this.
The problem is the fact that people (malware/spyware writers) will always try to exploit that fact.
In a perfect world nobody would write malware/spyware and everyone would use their coding skill for good. So it wouldn't be necessary for anyone to take measures to protect against exploits, etc.
But obviously this isn't a perfect world. It is what it is.

People can take the time to research/think and secure their systems, or not.

That is their right to do so. No one is stupid or an idiot for such things. They take the risk on their own system. they are not asking or telling anyone else to do what they do. It is not anyone's place to say anything bad about people who dont take these steps. Just as it isnt anyones place to say anything bad about people due to their OS of choice. Everyone has the right to choose what they want to do.

Yes, but I just said ignorant (literally lacking in knowledge). Not stupid or idiot.

 

[KSoD]

Re: Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus 2010

Apok i am not saying that you dont have some good points. I am not trying to put words in your mouth. I wasnt trying to imply that you said Opera could or couldnt do something, i wasnt trying to imply that you are calling people stupid or idiots.

What i am trying to say is that people do the least amount possible and expect to get the maximum results for it.

Yes if people did the research then such items like AV would be a moot point and not needed. If people did the research on how to use built in features of browsers today that they could easily be protected without the need for items such as AV's.

But there in itself is the problem. People just want to install and go. They dont want to do the research, they dont want to take the time to figure out how to keep themself protected. They think that by just running such programs as AV's that they are protected and when they do get infected they get upset cause simple programs like AV's that rely on definition updates dont protect them fully. Cause they are programs set to scan for specific items and cant catch every new threat until a definition is written for that protection.

In a perfect world, we wouldnt need to even be having this conversation. But in reailty people are not as informed as they should be and act on impulse. It is such things that get them into trouble with infections. So while i do agree that Common Sense is the best protection out there, advising people on a decent AV to use along with common sense is what we need to do. Cause you know as well as i do that no matter how many guides, tutorials, videos and everything else we do to try and inform people on how to stay protected, it falls on them to follow through with it. It is at that point that things break down and we haev to rely on AV programs to try and assist us in keeping people protected.

 

[Apokalipse]

Re: Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus 2010

But there in itself is the problem. People just want to install and go. They dont want to do the research, they dont want to take the time to figure out how to keep themself protected. They think that by just running such programs as AV's that they are protected and when they do get infected they get upset cause simple programs like AV's that rely on definition updates dont protect them fully. Cause they are programs set to scan for specific items and cant catch every new threat until a definition is written for that protection.

This is pretty much exactly my point.
You can't simply rely 100% on an antivirus/antimalware program, even if it is a very good one.
A set of instructions is ultimately limited by what exactly those instructions are. A computer can't and won't do more than it's instructed to do.

The best defense is to learn/research how to make your system secure, and apply it. And keep learning; To think about what you do. People are capable of thinking beyond being given instructions.
The problem is that most people don't and would rather not.

You can try teaching people things, and you can explain that they should try to think/research about these things for themselves. but a lot of people don't.
That's the biggest fallibility of people in security.

 

[Osiris]

Re: Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus 2010

Ive been messing with some garbage all day, called Tanatos, ever heard of that? This bad boy has been hopscotching the network all day, originated from the servers in MI. AVG has a tool specifially for this infection. What it does is infects just about any file it wants to. So AVG has been going off all day log on legit files that are infected. So if you arnt careful and let AVG remove them, say bye bye to your program, as a reinstall of that program is most likely needed.

Here is the removal tool.

AVG Free - Win32.Tanatos | Clean your infected PC

When you run it, it looks for it running in memory, if it finds it ir memory, it needs to reboot and then it will run before windows boots to stop it from running. Then once back at the desktop you can run it and it will scan every file on your system and attempt to clean the infected files. This tool worked wonders.

This is just another reason to have antivirus/antispyware programs running on your machine at all times. These servers are locked down, lock them down to much then they arent production servers anymore, they are expensive doorstops.

 

[Apokalipse]

Re: Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus 2010

But you're assuming the system is already infected.
Prevention is always better than cure.

 

[Osiris]

Re: Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus 2010

But you're assuming the system is already infected.
Prevention is always better than cure.

Who ya talkn too??

 

[gula187]

Re: Tech-Forums Top Rated Antivirus 2010

norton seemes to be on every site i searched for top rated A.V.