Noise when turning... Hmm?

[C0RR0SIVE]

I did some research, apparently it's a small crap issue with your transmission, apparently 50k miles on the severe should be the normal, and 25k for severe use, and most all americans would fall under the 25k changes.

Service Information 2008 Chevrolet Impala | Impala VIN W Service Manual | Document ID: 2079271
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#08-07-30-002A: Information on 4T65-E MN7, M15 and M76 Front Wheel Drive Automatic Transmission Valve Body Reconditioning DTCs P0741, P0742, P0757, P0842, Harsh Shifts or Slips - (Mar 12, 2008)


Subject: Information On 4T65-E MN7, M15 and M76 Front Wheel Drive Automatic Transmission Valve Body Reconditioning, DTCs P0741, P0742, P0757, P842, Harsh Shifts or Slips


Models: 2001-2005 Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue

2002-2007 Buick Rendezvous, Rendezvous AWD

2005-2007 Buick Terraza, Terraza EXT, Terraza 4WD

2005-2008 Buick Allure (Canada Only), LaCrosse

2006-2008 Buick Lucerne

2001 Chevrolet Lumina

2001-2005 Chevrolet Venture, Venture EXT, Venture 4WD

2001-2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

2001-2008 Chevrolet Impala, Lumina (Export Only)

2005-2008 Chevrolet Uplander, Uplander EXT, Uplander 4WD

2001-2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue

2001-2003 Oldsmobile Silhouette, Silhouette EXT

2004 Oldsmobile Silhouette EXT

2001-2005 Pontiac Montana, Montana EXT

2001-2005 Pontiac Aztek, Aztek AWD, Bonneville

2001-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix

2002-2005 Pontiac Montana 4WD

2005-2006 Pontiac Montana SV6 (AWD)

2005-2008 Pontiac Montana SV6, Montana SV6 EXT

2005-2006 Saturn Relay, Relay AWD

2005-2007 Saturn Relay EXT

with Hydra-Matic® 4T65-E (RPOs - MN7, M15, M76) Automatic Transmission




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This bulletin is being updated to include Related Service Document information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-07-30-002 (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle).


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The following new service information will aid technicians in providing easy to follow valve body reconditioning instructions and new illustrations to simplify reassembly of the valve body.

Related Service Document
Corporate Bulletin Number 02-07-30-013 : Incorrect Transmission Shifts, Poor Engine Performance, Harsh 1-2 Upshifts, Slips 1st and Reverse, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Stuck Off/On, DTCs P0757, P0741, P0742, P0730, P0756.

Important: If valve body cleaning is not required, DO NOT disassemble bores unless it is necessary to verify movement of valves.

Inspection Procedure
•Using the exploded views in this bulletin, inspect each bore for freedom of valve(s) movement and evidence of debris. Pay particular attention to those valves related to the customer's concern.
•Verify movement of the valves in their normal installed position. Valves may become restricted during removal or installation. This is normal due to small tolerances between the valves and bores.
•If a valve is restricted and cannot be corrected by cleaning the valve and bore, replace the valve body. Describe the restricted valve on the repair order.
Notice: Be sure all solenoids are installed with the electrical connectors facing the non-machined (cast) side of the valve body. Otherwise, the solenoids will bind against the transmission case as the valve body bolts are tightened and damage may occur.

Disassembly/Reassembly
•If a valve is restricted by a metal burr from machining that bore, remove the valve and burr, then inspect movement in the valve's normal position. If no other debris or restrictions are found, reassemble the valve body and install in the transmission.
•If the valve body has been contaminated with debris from another transmission component failure, disassemble all bores for complete cleaning of all valve body components. If possible, keep individual bore parts separated for ease of reassembly. Use the following illustrations in this bulletin for a positive identification and location of individual parts:
• Left Side Control Valve Body Assembly

• Right Side Control Valve Body Assembly

• Control Valve Body Assembly Chart, Valve Springs and Bore Plugs

Caution: Use appropriate eye protection when cleaning the valve body to prevent injury.

•Using GM Brake Clean, or equivalent, in a safe and clean environment (clean aluminum pan) clean the valve body and dry it with compressed air.
•Clean individual valve body components with GM Brake Clean, or equivalent. Coat each valve with clean ATF and reassemble in each bore. Check each valve for free movement during assembly of each bore.
Left Side Control Valve Body Assembly

Also, the place I found this, someone did have issues with the TQC actually failing, but your TQC is valve controlled, inside the FWD valve body, and can make the TC appear as failing. But, most all shops will replace the TC due to it being a major component and not easily replaced.

BTW, I found your thread going on in a few other forums. xD

 

[Jayce]

Do you use any car parts web sites for big ticket items like a transmission? I checked on JasperEngines and found a FWD trans runs 2100 and an AWD trans runs for nearly 3600. Suddenly the 2,900 dollar quote I got looks a heckuva lot more appealing than it was prior.

BTW - What forums? I have another thread running on an automotive forum. Is that what you're referring to?

 

[C0RR0SIVE]

Yea, that's what I was refering to. I normally use Rockauto.com, but they don't always have things, they normally list from all sorts of different warehouses and such.

EDIT:

Autozone DOES sell full transmissions and engines, but it's upto you to have it installed, they do include a torque converter.

All Trans rebuilt one is $2200 before core, send core in and it's around $1600 for the transmission, part number A175506, there are two types, make sure you get the right tag number.

 

[Jayce]

Well, we're just going to get the new trans put in. A family friend is able to get the 2,900 dollar option for us for a few bucks cheaper and still have it put in at the shop it's currently torn apart at. It might be done today, if not Tuesday (closed Mon due to holiday).

Overall, this has been quite an experience. First we had some noises at the rear that I had taken care of thanks to two differential fluid changes. Now the trans slip came up on cold starts and here I am. I always kind of thought the transmission acted funny, but I couldn't help but to choke it up to the fact I was now re-learning how to drive an automatic when I had been so used to the feel/sound/handling of a manual for all these years. After all, if you're in a manual and doing 70 in 3rd gear @ 4,000 RPM, your needle stays just there, 4,000 RPM. In an automatic with having less control you tend to bounce through the gears in a much more unnoticed fashion.

At the end of the day, I'm just glad it'll be over soon. It's a great vehicle and I read a lot of good reviews about it. It has a ton of room and it will be great having extra space for throwing gear we get from Lowes/Home Depot for the house, and ultimately, some little rascals. I'll just be happy to have it back with a new (and better) transmission than what this particular one had. It sucks it happened, but ehh, it's just luck of the draw I guess.

As before, Mr. C0rr0sive, thank you for your continued help, insight, advice, suggestions, and most importantly, patience.

EDIT - I talked to the trans guy again. You'll have to forgive me, I can't remember all he said again, but he had found some metal shavings in the valve body (??) and found something wrong when he checked out the torque converter (??). When he began to tear things apart, he also was able to tell the clutch packs were not in good shape either. There was a short list of things he found wrong with it. Sucks, but eh.

I'll get a more detailed response later, but I wanted to throw that on the table in case it made sense to you.

Just to sum things up, what did you gather from that bulletin you posted? Is that to say that a certain portion of the 2005's were affected by this transmission? All of the 2005's were affected? etc? I'm just trying to gather how widespread this was with other Relay's and Chevy Uplander's and the other GM vehicles that shared similar components of this van I have.

 

[C0RR0SIVE]

A bulletin like that, you need to check your VIN #, it applies to ALL cars from that year, where the letter in the bulletin matches the Vin#, it's a manufacturing defect sorta, but not recalled sadly since it does not pose a safety hazard. But only applies when the transmission computer notices an error, and sets a DTC (check engine light) thus requiring a transmission shop to pull the codes, and then service the transmission to correct. Such codes though are only set during a catasrophic transmission failure, and the transmission defaults into a mode called "limp mode" which it shift into second gear, and STAYS in second gear at all times to get you to the NEAREST shop, or area safe enough to park.

I feel the metal shavings are related as in that they are what caused the clutch packs to become excessively worn, the shavings most likely came from what was mentioned in the bulletin, I also found no information on there being a beefier version of your transmission for anything in it, except for clutch packs, but your issue seems to be the valve body system messing up, which could have happened from a late fluid change, remember me saying these REALLY needed it at 25k from the info I found? Yea. No need for thanks, I just remember when I was 17 and had a car that had the transmission rebuilt 6 times in a single year due to a **** shop, ever since I have just done my own research on everything that I can, and attempt fixing it my self. So far, I haven't had to take a single thing to a "professional" thanks to AAMCO in Frankfort Ky screwing me over on my old dodge that I still miss to this day.

 

[Jayce]

Pardon a shorter than normal response as I am on my phone but all I know with the new transmission is that it supposedly addresses the issue that came up in the original transmission that we're currently talking about. The cheaper option that was given to me that i didn't take was the option to get a factory new transmission put in. While it would be new it wouldn't be corrected of this issue. Does that sound legit to you? Stupid question but is the valve body a part of the actual transmission?

 

[C0RR0SIVE]

The valve body is what controls your transmission basically, it's where all the electrical connections end at and are turned into mechanical actions.

That also sounds legit, as the TSB is mostly related to when the transmission is being serviced, honestly if you can get a transmission that has beefier parts such as kevlar clutch packs and such, then you are better off, just make sure you get that serviced more often than what the book calls for, I bet the filter box the filter comes in says change at 10k miles.

I loved going from normal clutch packs in my transmission to kevlar ones, things held up better than any other part of my transmission.

 

[shalou]

There are way to many possible problems that could cause this. It could be anything in your drive train. With 4wd and all wheel drive the possibilities are doubled. Have a tech check it out so if there is a problem you can fix it once and be done with it. I have 18 years experience in the auto industry and I would not advise self diagnostics. It will cost you more in the long run.

 

[C0RR0SIVE]

Funny, it appears you did not read the whole thread, it was rulled that the noise was in fact coming from a differential due to an actual clutch pack in his rear differential, fluid changes helped solve that issue for the most part.

A new problem came along, a slip, and it was decided his valve body was damaged resulting in damage to his clutch packs and torque converter.

Next time please read the WHOLE thread, experience or not, he wanted adviced, you don't come to an auto sub-forum just to tell people, "take it else where for a pro" he is short on cash.

 

[Jayce]

shalou - I appreciate your insight, however as c0rr0sive has said this thread has evolved entirely since my initial question. Thank you for your time in posting, but that issue has since been resolved. I just tacked my other issue on the same thread since this WAS my thread after all. I figured keeping a rolling conversation on it would be easiest instead of creating more threads on the forum.

Anyway... just to recap, the valve body (which has control over most everything in the transmission [electrical, right?]) can also act as a central point of failure. A train wreck of a domino effect, essentially. Sounds like that's what happened to me, basically.

c0rr0sive - Do you think this is something that was a quick thing? Like Tuesday, valve body is not operating at 100%, and by Thursday, transmission is shot? Or do you think this is something that happens slowly over time? Also, since this was internal to the transmission (the valve body is inside, right? Or is it just bolted directly on the outside?), would the end user providing regular maintenance have caught this even if they were providing maintenance to the vehicle earlier than what was recommended? Or was it simply a design flaw in the plant? I'm curious if they have an exact number of vehicles that were affected by this particular issue/transmission... the transmission shop I spoke to had nothing to say in particular with this issue as they hadn't seen it before. In fact, they commented that these vehicles were normally very reliable, but of course that's not to say this shop knows 100% of the issues out there either.

Also, just for fun, do you have any idea what the average life expectancy is for a manual clutch in a small 4 door sedan? I've got 165k on my factory clutch in my Elantra and it just keeps chugging along. It sure doesn't feel brand new, but it doesn't show any signs of failing just yet. I've talked to several people who were in disbelief over it, citing that 100k on a single clutch is pretty admirable. Hmm...