Having trouble finding an answer. - Page 2

Mak213 · 11-01-2009, 08:07 AM

No formatting a USB Drive doesn't make it bootable. Doesnt matter if you format it in Windows, Linux, OS X, or DOS. formatting takes all data off of there. Formatting it to NTFS only allows you to put the Win7 Data on there. As Win7 operates on the NTFS file system.

Look at it this way. Format your hard drive. Now copy over JUST the Windows folder. Will it boot? No. you are missing the hidden boot files. They are system protected files and do not show even when you show hidden files. You have to unhide the system proptected files to see these files. That is how much Microsoft doesnt want you to see them.

Plus in addition to that, copying over data to a USB doesnt copy the boot data. You cant jsut copy a XP CD, Vista DVD to your hard drive and then burn that data to a blank disk and have it work. You will be missing the boot data. It doesnt get selected for the copy process.

I have done this a thousand times and created at least 500 coasters cause of this. You are missing the boot data. formatting does not create a bootable device.

Wizdumb · 11-01-2009, 08:26 AM

I understand what your saying but, I still believe in the literal and logical sense that re-formatting the USB to NTFS is making it bootable or "able to boot" from.

Mak213 · 11-01-2009, 09:36 AM

It does not. I can sit here and format every single USB drive in the world. It does not make it bootable cause there are specific boot files needed. These boot files contain the information to start the install process, if installing or to direct the boot to the required files as needed to get to a Windows desktop.

That information is surprisingly absent when a format of a USB Drive is complete. Easiest way to find out if i am lying. Go to your folder options. In Vista open Computer>Organize>Folder and Search Options. There click the View Tab. There make sure to uncheck the box for hide hidden files and the system protected hidden files.

Format the USB Drive. What is shown on the drive after a format? Nothing. Yet when you go into the system drive C:\ you see boot files. There is also a whole Boot Folder.

That is the information that is needed to boot. Boot folder and bootmgr are both mandatory files needed to boot the system. There is the easiest way i can have you do something yourself to confirm what i have been saying. Formatting a USB Drive does not place boot files on there.

Wizdumb · 11-01-2009, 09:54 AM

LOL, yeah I understand that you need the files on the USB to boot an OS, a blank USB is empty space....I realize this. What im saying is that reformatting to NTFS is making the drive bootable in the sense that reformatting it & putting the OS & files on it is giving you the ability to boot off the USB flashdrive hence the term 'bootable", try booting off a flashdrive thats not NTFS. Either way, I got Win 7 running, now the only problem is that Netgear hasnt released any drivers I need for windows 7 so it wont recognize my usb WN11v2 adapter. Formatting to NTFS is making the drive bootable. look up the definition of "boot" and "able". I can go all day.

Mak213 · 11-01-2009, 11:36 AM

Ahh okay. Now i understand.

The problem was the method used to copy the files to the USB. As i eluded to above, just selecting all the files from a CD/DVD doesnt copy the boot data. You need to use the Command Prompt to get all the files including the boot data. Sicne the boot data is hidden, it isnt selected. Even if you have the system files showing, that data isnt copied over.

Install Windows Vista from Bootable USB Flash Memory Drive

This link gives you that info more clearly.

Code:

xcopy d:\*.* /s/e/f e:\

You need to use xcopy to get all data including the boot data. If done any other way, dragging and dropping/selecting all and then copying, will not select the boot files as well.

I think that is where the confusion came in. Either way i am glad you got it sorted.

Wizdumb · 11-01-2009, 04:29 PM

No I know you were completely right, when i unzipped the RAR file onto my flash it showed all the files the exact same way as the windows dvd/usb program did but it diddnt load any of the boot files, even tho it showed them there were hidden ones as well. I diddnt have to do any of the copy stuff in the command prompt tho, I guess the windows 7 usb/dvd program did that for me? Now I just have to wait for netgear to come out with my network adapter drivers, which could take quite a while. Thanks for clearing all this up, gotta learn something new every day.

Hampton · 11-02-2009, 12:56 AM

Really the File System didn't seem relevant to the question. "NTFS" is the NT file system which has been the standard Windows File System since the release of the first NT, prior to that was the FAT system.

so being that it's a "Drive" you're setting up for Windows, "NTFS" would be the File system of choice.
DVD or CD would use their own File system that is NOT "NTFS".

Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS

As Mak said a simple copy and paste wont work.

Shylock · 11-02-2009, 05:22 AM

After you format your USB drive, at command prompt: [your dvd drive letter :] CD BOOT [prompt]CD BOOT you should see: BOOTSECT.EXE/NT60 [your USB drive letter] then copy all your dvd files onto the USB, including of course hidden ones. your good to go, it should boot np from the USB, as long as its a active partition, and has of course the boot files. NOTE: the boot files are NOT actually needed to make a USB bootable. The boot files are used to load the OS and handle the systems boot options as part of the boot process. Of course you won't actually get anywhere without them. Just sayin. actually here's a URL for it also: How To make Bootable USB

Slaymate · 11-02-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizdumb

Now I just have to wait for netgear to come out with my network adapter drivers, which could take quite a while. Thanks for clearing all this up, gotta learn something new every day.

Do they have Vista Drivers for your adapter? If they do then you should be able to use them. If they don't have Vista Drivers then their never going to have Windows 7 Drivers. It sounds like buying a new adapter maybe the thing to do

Wizdumb · 11-02-2009, 06:57 PM

I dunno what hampton and shylock are talking about but fyi I have windows 7 up and running so I dunno why you keep telling me how to do it....But Slaymate, I had no problem installing the drivers on vista. When im installing on windows 7 it gets all the way through until it attempts to detect the adapter and it says it cant find it. Ive been searching around I guess a lot of people are havning the same problem with my USB network adapter. Ill see if I cant download updated vista drivers and try those, I just bought this adapter a month ago : (

Edit: Found the problem, was trying to install x86 drivers, x64 drivers havnt been released for windows 7 so I have to wait.....sweet

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