[Osiris]

Itunes is the most successful music store in the world, if you do not count stores that have their office in Russia. One of the biggest disadvantages if iTunes is that the music that you purchase has DRM protection build into them. This protection makes it impossible to play those files on other mp3 players than the ipod for instance. This turns out really bad if you want to buy a new mp3 player which is not manufactured by Apple.

So, where is the alternative to deleting the files because they are basically useless to you ? You could try some programs that rip the DRM out of the music files to be able to transfer and use the music on your new mp3 player. Please note that using those programs might be illegal in the country where you are living, make sure you know what you are doing before downloading and using them. Not that someone would be able to find out.. The world needs more disclaimers like this, donÂ’t you think ?
The first program that is able to remove the DRM is QTFairUse. It can be downloaded from Rapidshare, the link was published on the forum thread that I linked to. The second tool is myFairTunes which does the same and converts the mp4 file to mp3 as well. I do not think that it makes much of a difference which program you will be using. I suggest you download one and if it does everything the way you want it you stick with that.

I donÂ’t need them at all because I do not buy music, videos or other media in stores that add DRM to the files or demand a ridiculous amount of money for the media.

http://hymn-project.org/forums/viewt...hp?p=9565#9565

[TMT]

Why would you want to use any of these programs, which are strictly against the law, when you can simply burn your DRM-contained audio/video to audio/VCD discs, and then rip them back in to your computer? This is the current legal loop-hole of stripping your media content of its DRM. It remains legal, because you are licensed to burn a limited number of copies of your purchased media.

However, don't quote me on this. I have been known to get things wrong once in a while.

TMT.

[The General]

Originally posted by TMT
Why would you want to use any of these programs, which are strictly against the law, when you can simply burn your DRM-contained audio/video to audio/VCD discs, and then rip them back in to your computer? This is the current legal loop-hole of stripping your media content of its DRM. It remains legal, because you are licensed to burn a limited number of copies of your purchased media.

However, don't quote me on this. I have been known to get things wrong once in a while.

TMT.

There is nothing illegal about removing DRM from music. There IS something illegal about sharing your de-DRM'd music over P2P networks or with other people who haven't paid money.

There is no reason why I sound go through the trouble of burning CDs and throwing them away after I rip them, when I can just de-DRM them with a program.

Then again, there is no reason anyone should have to pay money for something that costs $0 to reproduce. I'll continue "stealing" all of my music, thank you.

[moisiss]

[i]Then again, there is no reason anyone should have to pay money for something that costs $0 to reproduce. I'll continue "stealing" all of my music, thank you. [/B]

\

What about the 25-150 thousand dollars that the band whose music you just ripped owes to the label for recording the music in the first place? Surely they deserve something.... at least enough to continue to make the music you enjoy.

I would agree that the price on downloaded music should be reduced (no packaging, physical copys, etc. to spend money on) but it costs a lot more than $0 to produce an album, even when you subtract the cost of making physical copies of everything.

[The General]

Originally posted by moisiss
\

What about the 25-150 thousand dollars that the band whose music you just ripped owes to the label for recording the music in the first place? Surely they deserve something.... at least enough to continue to make the music you enjoy.

I would agree that the price on downloaded music should be reduced (no packaging, physical copys, etc. to spend money on) but it costs a lot more than $0 to produce an album, even when you subtract the cost of making physical copies of everything.

Again, it costs $0 to reproduce. You're talking about the production costs, but those are all covered with concert revenue and CDs.

[moisiss]

If you are saying that you should be able to have as many copies as you need, in whatever formatt, of a song or album after you buy one copy, I totally agree with you. But if you are just downloading everything (I.E. never paying for it in any way, shape, or form) and saying that it is not costing anyone anything, then I don't agree with you.

Something like 95%+ of albums never make back the money that was spent on them... and this was before people started downloading. And as far as concert revenue paying for albums... if your a band/artist, you better hope you don't have a deal like that, because then you wouldn't make enough to live much less tour and make more music. The artists don't recieve 1 cent from CD sales until all of the money initially invested from the record company is completely recouped. If you download/copy an album (for free), how often do you go buy a hard copy of that same album?

So yes, you are correct in saying that it does not cost anything to reproduce the digital data... but if you are not buying a CD (hard copy or digital copy that you download) because you just downloaded a free copy, how does the record company/artist get their money back? Or make enough to keep putting out new music?

[The General]

Originally posted by moisiss
If you are saying that you should be able to have as many copies as you need, in whatever formatt, of a song or album after you buy one copy, I totally agree with you.

Good, at least I know you are rational. But I'd prefer not buying the first one. If they still put albums out on vinyl, I'd be all over them. I'd probably never even download music again if music was still being released on vinyl. Of course, that's aside from the fact that all good music is either available live at your local venue, or on vinyl already. It's just a matter of finding it.

Originally posted by moisiss
But if you are just downloading everything (I.E. never paying for it in any way, shape, or form) and saying that it is not costing anyone anything, then I don't agree with you.

Are you saying that MP3's cost more than $0 to duplicate? Because if so, then you're lying. It costs $0 to duplicate an MP3. CD's and vinyl are different, instead of a set of 1's and 0's arranged in the right order, you actually get a piece of physical material which costs something to reproduce. One thing you seem to be missing is that bands make money in other ways than selling music. People pay for tickets to go to concerts (I am one of them) ... I don't think people should get free concerts, that's just absurd. The cost of a large scale concert is more than the cost of recording an album. Recording an album only costs time, really. If you think it costs more than $10,000 then you are insane. That money is made back at the first concert.

Originally posted by moisiss
Something like 95%+ of albums never make back the money that was spent on them... and this was before people started downloading.

Can you provide a link for that statistic? I really doubt it's accurate. I know garage bands who spend thousands of dollars on recording albums and make that money back playing at small bars with a $5 cover charge. You have got to be insane or something if you think that these bands are losing money or not making enough money because of people download or copying tapes, etc.

Originally posted by moisiss
And as far as concert revenue paying for albums... if your a band/artist, you better hope you don't have a deal like that, because then you wouldn't make enough to live much less tour and make more music.

You have got to be insane if you think that concert revenue is nothing to scoff at. Think about it, with a $10,000 recording debt, and 10,000 people at the concert, that $10,000 debt turns into $250,000 ($25/ticket)... if you think a concert like that costs any more than $35,000 then you are just insane. Stuff just doesn't cost that much.

Originally posted by moisiss
The artists don't recieve 1 cent from CD sales until all of the money initially invested from the record company is completely recouped.

Well, then they should sign with major record labels then. I know some freaking local bands where all they do is play in bars and they make more money that I ever will. The bar gets business because of the band, the bar charges $5 cover charges, and pay the band for getting them that extra business. They make like $1,500 a night divided by 4 people. That's a lot of money.

They own their own equipment and do everything themselves. None of the bands that are signed with major record labels make any good music anyway. The entire market is just that - a market. The only good musicians are signed with independent record labels or aren't signed with a record label at all and play in bars and at your local venue. All of which have their music available for download on their websites.

Want a copy of their music? Ask them for a CD-R. Want a live DVD of them playing? Go tape it with your video camera and record it on a DVD. They may want a copy. It's a mutual effort. It's fun. It has nothing to do with filling arena rock shows with hundreds of thousands of people. It has nothing to do with filling the isles at Best Buy with your album and advertising with your music videos on MTV and VH1. It's about music.

Originally posted by moisiss
If you download/copy an album (for free), how often do you go buy a hard copy of that same album?

Never, because they don't need my money. If they want money, they can come to my city for a show and I'll buy tickets. They can screw off if they don't play shows.

Originally posted by moisiss
So yes, you are correct in saying that it does not cost anything to reproduce the digital data... but if you are not buying a CD (hard copy or digital copy that you download) because you just downloaded a free copy, how does the record company/artist get their money back?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - concert revenue.

Originally posted by moisiss
Or make enough to keep putting out new music?

Making music requires a creative mind, not money.

[moisiss]

Ah yes.... I see what the problem is now.... you are completely ignorant of how the music industry works. It's ok though... most people are.

I'll post a more detailed counter-argument when I get home from work... I don't have the time to get all of the info together right now.

But this is where the main problem lies... people just have no idea how much it costs to make the music that they so love to listen to... so they just download it all and think that no one is losing out.

[The General]

Originally posted by moisiss
Ah yes.... I see what the problem is now.... you are completely ignorant of how the music industry works. It's ok though... most people are.

I kill you with facts, so you insult me. Ultimately, I win.

Originally posted by moisiss
I'll post a more detailed counter-argument when I get home from work... I don't have the time to get all of the info together right now.

Why don't you just wait until you have something to say before posting? Your post is inane.

Originally posted by moisiss
But this is where the main problem lies... people just have no idea how much it costs to make the music that they so love to listen to... so they just download it all and think that no one is losing out.

Do you have any idea how little time it takes to record an album? It takes about a week, then another week of post processing. It's not like a movie ...

Writing music costs $0.

[moisiss]

That wasn't meant as an insult... it was a simple observation. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant of things... you should just be aware that you are ignorant.

Your "facts" are completely incorrect.... hence the "you are ignorant about the music industry" comment. Just the fact that you think it takes no longer than 2 weeks and $10,000 dollars to record an album shows how little you know. This may be true for some "garage bands"... but for major artists on major labels it is not uncommon for bands to spend up to a year in the studio... racking up well over $10,000 in expenses.

My information comes from personal experience and the books that I have read about the music industry... mainly this one...
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0743246...893510-7951855

but I will have to wait until I get home to post quotes, page numbers, etc. because I didn't bring my copy to work with me.

Writing music takes time. Time = money. Therefore, Writing music takes money.