[testmaster]

Linux is good - when it runs. Massive problems with drivers etc. means installation sucks. I have tried for 6 weeks to install Debian (Woody), DSL, Knoppix and MEPIS - 1Ghz Celeron, 512Mb Ram, TNT2 video etc.

NONE install without problems and only MEPIS and DSL allowed me to use the GUI because of video driver problems.

MEPIS (the best) leaves me without modem, sound and network card, and the screen resolution is only 800x600.

Linux is great for as a hobby - use MS for the real world. And there is nothing that on-line help can do to better this. I just will not live long enough to get into command lines again. Rebuild the kernal - get real, life's too short.

[xotix]

LOL, linux support all hardware if you got good stuff in your computer.
i installed suse9.1 with no problems. the only thing is that it didn't detect my crappy modem. there are so many resources online to help you with linux. try this forum for example, horndude really helped me in my battle to install my modem drivers.

tell me something though, did u ever see a blue screen in linux?? did an application ever crash in linux?? did you ever have to worry about virus?? did you ever had to worry about hackers??

another note, linux keeps itself much more up-to-date that ms. the new kde is out, so i would say get the latest version of linux like suse9.2 and try again. its worth it.

[horndude]

If you stay with mainstream established hardware AND stay away from hardware that is "dumb" requiring drivers for even basic functions you will be fine.Example, winmodems, these are modems that need drivers for all of their functions.Back in the day when modems first appeared they all had some basic functions as part of the chipset, these work fine in linux.Same with printers, postscript anything will work, some manufacturers support linux better than others.

With graphics or video cards, just check x.org or xfree866.org and see if its natively supported under whichever Xserver your gonna be using.If it isnt listed check the manufacturer, right now NVIDIA supports linux 100%, many others do not.

Bottom line, linux in many cases means doing a little research first, knowing your hardware, and knowing a little about computers.Once installed, its probably the most stable and flexible OS out there, and its free from restrictions and costs nothing.

[IBMan]

sorry, i didnt know wat this topic was about before i posted, im having troubles with it recognizing my modem, its an aztech systems LTD 56k modem and i wanna run either mandrake, knoppix or both and triple boot with windows XP, i can do the tripple boot i just need to get my modem working, any help would be greatly appreciated

[horndude]

goto redhat's site and check that modem for linux compatibility, I know, I know, your not using redhat, but they have a good database for linux compatible hardware.

[testmaster]

Hi all

many thanks for all your kind replies. I will try your suggestions when time permits as I really want to experience the full Linux product - and I like much of what I see so far.

I teach IT to users in their workplace. Many companies will, I believe, need to look seriously at Linux in the near future as Longhorn is set to bring big bills for little return.

However, my "playing" with linux is not idle. Were I a business could I tolerate spending so much time simply trying to get a system that runs?

I am aware of the problems with driver info. etc. but from an end user point of view they don't care - what they want is no hassel computing. What they are getting is anything but currently. Why am I using my PC? It's a sod. I new it would be so when I tried to install - but it is probably typical of many of the machines I encounter in small companies daily.

My challenge to the Linux community remains - no matter how good Linux is it is Bl*&*^y useless if it does not install at least as well as Windows on anything you throw it at. I that includes ALL versions of Linux distributed. It may be a mundane requirement but without it there is no chance of competing with MS on any real footing.

Best Wishes

testmaster

[horndude]

Well believe it or not, Microsoft and its lobbying with the manufacturers is part of the problem.Linux like unix is based on is a posix compliant OS and certain standards are expected, unlike the standardless format of windows, hence the problem.The change by Apple to OS X another posix compliant OS will in effect help linux greatly.Still, people have problems installing windows too.It is a more serious issue with linux, but in my experience more often than not its a case of the person installing it not having enough knowledge or taking the time to find out what they need to know to work with linux.After working with windows for awhile it takes awhile to untrain oneself and really learn what what you can do with an OS that makes sense and is relatively simple but very very flexible in the ways it can be set up.

[testmaster]

Quote:

Well believe it or not, Microsoft and its lobbying with the manufacturers is part of the problem.Linux like unix is based on is a posix compliant OS and certain standards are expected, unlike the standardless format of windows, hence the problem.The change by Apple to OS X another posix compliant OS will in effect help linux greatly.

I agree completely. It is the dominance of MS and their control of the market that is the problem. That I full understand.

Quote:
Still, people have problems installing windows too

Agreed - but the problems are nowhere near those of Linux - for the reasons above. However, the domestic/business based Windows user neither knows or understands this. What they see currently is a system that claims to be better and which does not load and run. If it partially runs, the "help" is incomprehensible even to someone like me at times. The end result is that they don't bother as the apparent risk and potential disruption to the business processes are unacceptable.

There is no argument that this is a lost opportunity, but you can understand the reasons.

Quote:
It is a more serious issue with linux, but in my experience more often than not its a case of the person installing it not having enough knowledge or taking the time to find out what they need to know to work with linux.

Again - no argument :-) After many years as a Windows user, the transition is a very steep learning curve and one that many small businesses simply cannot commit to. Perhaps this is the main challenge to the Linux world to make the product accessible to even the technophobic.

Quote:
After working with windows for awhile it takes awhile to untrain oneself and really learn what what you can do with an OS that makes sense and is relatively simple but very very flexible in the ways it can be set up.

Again, no argument. However, the Linux world is facing an education program to simply highlight the fact that the OS can do tricks - but this brings us back to the comment above. Knowing it can and making it do so are 2 separate notions, and both need to be addressed seriously if Linux is to begin to gain a popular foothold in teh market.

[horndude]

Im not sure I myself want Linux to be the desktop OS of choice that windows is really,its fine the way it is.The longer it stays free and untampered with by the market forces thet prevail the better it will be methinks.Its already surpassed Apple as far as number of users, and has strong control over the server market.When redhat started their distro I had already been playing with slackware and I wasnt too pleased with what redhat had done, early redhat was a pretty buggy distro, mandrake had a similar solution and I think they did a slightly better job with it, but still, the simplicity of slackware has always appealed to me.Unfortunately, simplicity to an extent means more work when setting up a system, and no linux isnt plug and play in most cases.But, thats what alot of the world wants, plug it in, and play.

On the otherhand, Ive been selling used PC's preloaded and setup with linux for awhile now, and Ive had pretty good results, most folks have been very very happy with what Ive sold and setup for them, but I also take the time to show them how to use it and make sure Im available to answer any questions and fix any problems.

There are some users that have no choice but to use windows, attorneys or legal in general and anybody in the architectural business or design business, linux doesnt have the software for it, nothing mainstream and good anyway.

I find it kind of funny though that some other areas like video editing,sound studios, and many industrial applications are finding linux very suitable.It may very well be that in the future linux may never gain a foothold in the desktop market, and thats ok with me.

[testmaster]

I can quite understand your feelings about attempting to make Linux the Desktop OS of choice. To do so will clearly begin to introduce change and controls and restrictions etc.

However, Linux will change regardless (and not always for the better in everyone's view). Because of the nature of open source, there will perhaps always be people prepared to work at producing software for the fun of it. However, Sun and other big orgs. (not to ignore gov.) are now interested and the prospect of a prodiuct that can challenge MS is just too good to miss. De facto Linux will change and become more and more commercial. It's a money thing.

There will always be a core of programmers and developers who will push the limits and be innovative (I hope), but unless they can keep their products very quiet there will always be someone who can see the opportunity to make a buck. That's life ;-)

In the meantime - I must get time to pull down some drivers....