stats

pjam76 · 07-21-2006, 06:09 PM

Guess you don't follow reality much then.

CSC is getting rid of 8000 workers and opening up an office in India an hiring 9000 workers.

I'm a contractor so it didn't bother me but most people I worked with on a CSC project were concerned.

The fact is on avg many programmers are paid 80k+.

In india they are paid at most 8K.

Do the math, it's simple business.

Many other larger companies are getting rid of tons and tons of people by the thousands.

The problem has always been many IT people were non business and not the best at socializing for years.

So now when business views IT as another business expense and not some "wow" factor it's just a fact of life.

If many programmers/engineers/and so on have trouble speaking to others it won't matter how great they are at what they do because it can be done about as good for about 20 times less at times.

It's simple math.

Statistics are nice if you sit at home and have a father who's last name is Gates and first name is Bill.

But in reality most stats are biased to make people belive everything is hunky dory.

raross · 07-21-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pjam76
Guess you don't follow reality much then.

CSC is getting rid of 8000 workers and opening up an office in India an hiring 9000 workers.

I'm a contractor so it didn't bother me but most people I worked with on a CSC project were concerned.

The fact is on avg many programmers are paid 80k+.

In india they are paid at most 8K.

Do the math, it's simple business.

Many other larger companies are getting rid of tons and tons of people by the thousands.

The problem has always been many IT people were non business and not the best at socializing for years.

So now when business views IT as another business expense and not some "wow" factor it's just a fact of life.

If many programmers/engineers/and so on have trouble speaking to others it won't matter how great they are at what they do because it can be done about as good for about 20 times less at times.

It's simple math.

Statistics are nice if you sit at home and have a father who's last name is Gates and first name is Bill.

But in reality most stats are biased to make people belive everything is hunky dory.

You have no clue what you're talking about. This has nothing to do with software engineering. Software engineering is the #1 job in america with the highest expected growth.

There are your statistics.

I could teach an 8 year old how to program, but I cannot teach an 8 year old how to become a software engineer. People are often confused about software engineering and programming. You can become a programmer by getting a meaningless 2 year degree, but to become a software engineer you need atleast a BS.

pjam76 · 07-21-2006, 07:45 PM

Thats the problem with your statistics.

Many Software Engineering jobs are nothing more then glorified developer jobs.

I've been a Software Engineer at times doing engineering type work and many other times I was a Software Engineer making great money but i was programming and developing.
Other times I was simply Designing but labeled a Software Engineer.

It's about what a name is. What the label is.

And the fact is the statistics will only look at how many Software Engineers are being hired, planned on being hired and so on.

It doesn't take into account that probably half of the Software Engineering jobs are nothing more then programming jobs.

It's that fact that you don't follow.

Obviously you haven't held that many jobs or you've stayed at one job for a long long time. Nothing wrong with that.

But in the IT world, most people I know and those I don't know but spoke to jump for IT job to IT job because of better offers, cutbacks, advancements, contracts and so on.

Look at what many of the major jobs that Software Engineers will have.

It's companies like Oracle, CSC, Adecco, Accenture, IBM, Lockheed Martin, Harris, and various other companies that have become more or less Consultant like businesses.

They don't make their own software anymore they build software for a contract. Whether that contract is for the government, for the pharmaceutical industry or for the financial industry the fact is many Engineers are now consultants. It's the way it is.

Yeah it's nice to think Software Engineering is a simple definition. But i've been around too long and see too many things to know that most of your stats are based on the fact that half of the jobs labeled as Software Engineers are nothing more then glorified developer/programmer jobs.

jaeusm · 07-21-2006, 09:54 PM

Is there any reason you keep making new topics instead of posting your responses in the appropriate thread?

Quote:

Many Software Engineering jobs are nothing more then glorified developer jobs.

And...

Quote:

And the fact is the statistics will only look at how many Software Engineers are being hired, planned on being hired and so on.

Yeah, that's how forecasting works...

Quote:

It doesn't take into account that probably half of the Software Engineering jobs are nothing more then programming jobs.

It's that fact that you don't follow.

What difference does it make? So what if the title "software engineer" is being used for development, programming, and engineering. You said programmers, developers and engineers are being outsourced -- in the month-old thread that you dug up:

Quote:

most of your programmers, developers and engineers are either being outsourced or H1B visa holders.

I guess I don't understand why you're making it a point to say that the stats are somehow skewed because "software engineer" is being used to represent developers, etc. Your original post made the assertion that all those positions are being outsourced. If they were, maybe the conglomerate "software engineer" wouldn't be expected to grow by 40% in the US over the next 10 years.

I've been hearing about outsourcing for some time now. I know it happens. I know some people have lost jobs. It just hasn't stopped the growth of the field in the US overall -- nor is it predicted to.

elitesoldier · 07-29-2006, 10:16 PM

They outsource in every field. If it can be digitized or automated, it will probably be outsourced. If you don't like it, then go get some other job that can't be outsourced.

07-21-2006, 06:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
pjam76 Newb Techie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 31	stats Guess you don't follow reality much then. CSC is getting rid of 8000 workers and opening up an office in India an hiring 9000 workers. I'm a contractor so it didn't bother me but most people I worked with on a CSC project were concerned. The fact is on avg many programmers are paid 80k+. In india they are paid at most 8K. Do the math, it's simple business. Many other larger companies are getting rid of tons and tons of people by the thousands. The problem has always been many IT people were non business and not the best at socializing for years. So now when business views IT as another business expense and not some "wow" factor it's just a fact of life. If many programmers/engineers/and so on have trouble speaking to others it won't matter how great they are at what they do because it can be done about as good for about 20 times less at times. It's simple math. Statistics are nice if you sit at home and have a father who's last name is Gates and first name is Bill. But in reality most stats are biased to make people belive everything is hunky dory.

07-21-2006, 07:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
pjam76 Newb Techie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 31	like i said Thats the problem with your statistics. Many Software Engineering jobs are nothing more then glorified developer jobs. I've been a Software Engineer at times doing engineering type work and many other times I was a Software Engineer making great money but i was programming and developing. Other times I was simply Designing but labeled a Software Engineer. It's about what a name is. What the label is. And the fact is the statistics will only look at how many Software Engineers are being hired, planned on being hired and so on. It doesn't take into account that probably half of the Software Engineering jobs are nothing more then programming jobs. It's that fact that you don't follow. Obviously you haven't held that many jobs or you've stayed at one job for a long long time. Nothing wrong with that. But in the IT world, most people I know and those I don't know but spoke to jump for IT job to IT job because of better offers, cutbacks, advancements, contracts and so on. Look at what many of the major jobs that Software Engineers will have. It's companies like Oracle, CSC, Adecco, Accenture, IBM, Lockheed Martin, Harris, and various other companies that have become more or less Consultant like businesses. They don't make their own software anymore they build software for a contract. Whether that contract is for the government, for the pharmaceutical industry or for the financial industry the fact is many Engineers are now consultants. It's the way it is. Yeah it's nice to think Software Engineering is a simple definition. But i've been around too long and see too many things to know that most of your stats are based on the fact that half of the jobs labeled as Software Engineers are nothing more then glorified developer/programmer jobs.

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07-29-2006, 10:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
elitesoldier True Techie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 131	They outsource in every field. If it can be digitized or automated, it will probably be outsourced. If you don't like it, then go get some other job that can't be outsourced.