[jaeusm]

Jaeusm, be humble man

You'd do well to take your own advice.

I think everyone reading this thread is laughing their asses of because of the way you respond to my posts.

Yes, logical responses to anecdotal evidence and ad hominem attacks are funny.

you're trying to refute little statements I make (in a sly way) without admitting to the WHOLE POINT I'm trying to make.

Lets see, this was your point: "WELL, WHAT WAS MY POINT? I'm trying to say, the "majority" of the large companies work mainly with C++." I responded to it by saying that you need to back that up. Prove to me that all "big companies" require knowledge of C++. You have thus far failed to do that.

you're obviously working for a company that uses Java

Actually, I already posted the language I use in my current job. You might want to read my posts before responding to them.

There are MORE big companies that use C++ as their foundation than big companies that use Java as their foundation, right?

That is the assertion I've been asking you to back up. You made the claim, so prove it. Show me documentation. Show a study. Something other than, "my friend said...".

EVERYONE knows big companies prefer C++

Prove it.

You're not providing any data yourself

The burden of proof is on you. You're the one making the assertion.

If I had a career, I know for a fact I wouldn't waste my time on some forum with a college student about whether C++ or Java is more widely used in big companies.

Maybe you wouldn't, but I would . Are you just starting college?

You really don't need data to know what I'm trying to prove

Do I actually need to refute this statement?

you've obviously started off in a smaller company that use Java more than C++ and you've been tainted with this.

Yeah, the Air Force is pretty small.

Ah, I'm sure people reading this post can conclude for themselves that C++ is more widely used in BIG companies.

Well of course they can. I mean, just look at all the evidence you've provided.

I decided to do some of your work for you. I went some of the "big companies" and searched their job databases for java jobs and c++ jobs. Here are the results:
Northrup Grumman
- java: 211
- c++: 85

Raytheon
- java: 175
- c++: 180

Accenture
- java: 181
- c++: 63

Intel
- java: 34
- c++: 27

HP
- java: 403
- c++: 273

Lockheed
- java: 559
- c++: 619

Though a bit off topic, you may find this link interesting:
TPCI - TIOBE Programming Community Index

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by jaeusm

Though a bit off topic, you may find this link interesting:
TPCI - TIOBE Programming Community Index

That's just awesome and perfectly on-topic! Lua increasing though - hah, we have MMORPGs to thank for that. PHP going down, uh oh... Thanks for that link!

[OnlyCurious]

Originally Posted by jaeusm

You'd do well to take your own advice.


Yes, logical responses to anecdotal evidence and ad hominem attacks are funny.


Lets see, this was your point: "WELL, WHAT WAS MY POINT? I'm trying to say, the "majority" of the large companies work mainly with C++." I responded to it by saying that you need to back that up. Prove to me that all "big companies" require knowledge of C++. You have thus far failed to do that.


Actually, I already posted the language I use in my current job. You might want to read my posts before responding to them.


That is the assertion I've been asking you to back up. You made the claim, so prove it. Show me documentation. Show a study. Something other than, "my friend said...".


Prove it.


The burden of proof is on you. You're the one making the assertion.


Maybe you wouldn't, but I would . Are you just starting college?


Do I actually need to refute this statement?


Yeah, the Air Force is pretty small.


Well of course they can. I mean, just look at all the evidence you've provided.

I decided to do some of your work for you. I went some of the "big companies" and searched their job databases for java jobs and c++ jobs. Here are the results:
Northrup Grumman
- java: 211
- c++: 85

Raytheon
- java: 175
- c++: 180

Accenture
- java: 181
- c++: 63

Intel
- java: 34
- c++: 27

HP
- java: 403
- c++: 273

Lockheed
- java: 559
- c++: 619

Though a bit off topic, you may find this link interesting:
TPCI - TIOBE Programming Community Index

ROFL, hey man, your data is skewed.... obviously didn't do the correct "C++" search on their sites??

Nothrop Gruman:
-java=316
-c++=288
--yeah..... um... don't try fooling with that kinda ratio. 211:85 haha
- Nothrop Gruman is more java based like you said, but don't exaggerate now.

Raytheon seems correct

Accenture
-java = 63
-c++ = 70
181:63 <-- i don't think so...

Intel
-java = 27
-c++ = 218
34:27??? are you kidding me?? if you're gonna lie, make it more reasonable..

HP
-java = 398
-c++ = 273

Lockheed:
-java = 561
-c++ = 635
Stop fooling yourself.

Yes the air force IS pretty small compared to the industry itself. Why do you think they hire boeing, lockheed, raytheon, nothrop, if the AF was sooooooooo big.

Ok, so this research was in your favor and you OBVIOUSLY LIED. BUT you still lose. I didn't tweak the numbers at all, everyone on this forum can go search c++ and java themselves. Only Nothrop Gruman and HP has more "OPENINGS" for java programmers. While others have more C++.

NOW, think about this.... these are openings. Everyone who is working at these large companies are probably 90% C++ software engineers who have been hired. I've seen it from personal experience, like I have already mentioned.

I smell a definite fanboy in denial.

Edit: I've talked to all of these company's representatives and they all said C++ is what they want from their candidates(including Nothrop Grumman)** edited because I know this is gonna get ugly, I know what type of person you are.. lOL

[OnlyCurious]

Originally Posted by jaeusm

Lets see, this was your point: "WELL, WHAT WAS MY POINT? I'm trying to say, the "majority" of the large companies work mainly with C++." I responded to it by saying that you need to back that up. Prove to me that all "big companies" require knowledge of C++. You have thus far failed to do that.

Hm... you obviously gave false info. I would suggest you check again. Look at the results I got by going into those company's webpages. Out of all those employers, whom you have chosen to look up, thus being in your favor, only TWO of them have more "openings" for Java programmers. The rest... which would be the majority, are looking for C++ programmers.

See how you said, "Prove to me that ALL "big companies"...". Jebus... are you okay?? Lets emphasize the word "ALL". READ my posts again. You even quoted my main point and you still cannot comprehend what my main point is. If you are confused... I'll emphasize the word "MAJORITY".

EDIT: Lets not forget that I said "work mainly with C++", I never said "ONLY", I said mainly, I'm not excluding the Java language here.

Oh, I couldn't stop laughing about the Intel ratio you gave up there... LOL.

[OnlyCurious]

I'm willing to change my perspective, which seems like the thing you're after. What is your take on this? There has to be a reason why you are arguing this. You must think there are more big companies that hire Java programmers than big companies that hire C++ programmers, no?

****, I would love it if there were more big companies that hired java programmers, gives me a reason to start learning Java sooner.

I guess you can't write h.e.l.l on here...

[jaeusm]

Yes the air force IS pretty small compared to the industry itself. Why do you think they hire boeing, lockheed, raytheon, nothrop, if the AF was sooooooooo big.

They hire outside contractors because it is cheaper than hiring engineers full time. Some stats on company sizes:
The AF has 153,879 civilian employees as of 2001 (source: http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personne...1/may_2001.pdf) and 337,780 active duty individuals (source: AFPC - Air Force Personnel Center.
Boeing: 154,081 (source: Boeing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Lockheed Martin: 135,000 (source: Lockheed martin) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Northrup Grumman: 122,000+ (source: Northrup Grumman) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Raytheon: 73,000 (source: Raytheon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

I'm still getting 181 jobs from searching the keyword "java" at Accenture. As for Northrup Grumman, my numbers are correct. I specified the job function as "Information Systems". Granted, it was the only search I did. As for Intel, I searched only jobs in the United States. I searched "java" first which was 34, and then C++ second, which returned 27. I see my mistake, as I didn't click the "new search" button between the searches. I apologize for that. However, aside from Intel, I'm still able to retrieve the same numbers I posted earlier.

See how you said, "Prove to me that ALL "big companies"...". Jebus... are you okay?? Lets emphasize the word "ALL". READ my posts again. You even quoted my main point and you still cannot comprehend what my main point is.

Don't marginalize this into trivial semantics.

Everyone who is working at these large companies are probably 90% C++ software engineers who have been hired. I've seen it from personal experience, like I have already mentioned.

This is conjecture. Truthfully, I don't believe that at all. However, since there is no external data to support either position, I won't argue it with you.

I'm willing to change my perspective, which seems like the thing you're after. What is your take on this? There has to be a reason why you are arguing this.

I'm arguing this because you are making bold assertions in a matter-of-fact manner, that I don't believe are true. I do not think the majority of "big companies work mainly with C++". Some of them do, for sure. I just don't believe that the majority work mainly with C++.

However, I couldn't care less about what languages "big companies" use. Personally, I think a better gauge is to look at overall job availability. Using Dice.com, and searching the keyword "java" returned 16,809 jobs, while "c++" returned 8,324. In the end, all languages come and go. The most important thing is knowing how to write code and develop software, as I posted earlier.

As an aside, I haven't used Java in over a year. I code in C# and Python in my current job, both of which I prefer over Java.