[Rouen]

I'm actually having a very similar battle right now. I've introducing myself into the programming field start a few months ago and have been studying C++ as my first language at my own pace, which is rather slow. It's hard to use only books and not have a PERSON to help you out. I'm just started looking a java a week ago. So the question here is, which is best to learn for your very first langauge, Java or C++? C++ is extremely powerful and universal since the ANSI version is standardized, but Java is also widely used and anyone with the runtime enviroment on their computer can run java apps.

[steve6t6]

Which one has the best community support? for a self learner maybe a wealth of resources is more important than the portability of the code.

[prodigy]

Originally Posted by Vormund

Java because it's used in the real-world extensively, whereas C++ never really took off. Also, cross-platform is fun now and then. Lastly, it's a lot easier to get things done in Java.

Not trying to be a jerk, but that comment is pretty far off from the truth. C++ has things that Java can never and was never designed to do. Most PC games that involve 3D use at least some C++ because you get a level of optimization you can't get on Java. That and the fact that you can imbed assembly code, gives you even more opportunity to optimize your code for a given software. You can also integrate a Java assembly for JVM into your Java code but since you are, essentially, programming on a "virtual" machine you aren't really optimizing on the hardware you are working on. C and C++ are still heavily used so to say it never took off or waned in the amount of useage is way off base.

Back to the OP question. The language you choose should be based on what you are trying to do. No one language is the "end all be all" language. The reason why Java is so popular is, primarily, for web related development. This is because it is extremly portable and you can program for a single platform, the JVM. If you are looking into developing closer to the hardware level then I would go with C++. You should also take a look at C#. For Java it is hard to make it work across different languages but C# and .NET and COM (I wouldn't consider COM easy though) facillitate that much better. This allows you to develop in one language in an area that would best fit it and then develop something else in another language and then bring the two together.

[OnlyCurious]

C++ owns Java in real-world applications in BIG companies. Java is good to know in real-world applications in SMALL companies. <<<<< generalization (but that's how it is).

C++ is FASTER than Java, thus used more in BIG companies like I said. Java is something on the side that is good to know. END OF STORY.

C++ > Java

My sources: My friends who thought JAVA was the KING in college, went out into the real-world and were hired as Software Engineers for Apple Computers, Software Engineer Project manager for HP, and Lead Programmer for EA games. ALL three of them now know that C++ owns it all. They always tell me how JAVA doesn't compare to C++.

I was shocked too because they were Java fanboys in college... LOL

[Vormund]

prodigy, then please read follow-up posts before quoting like that. I backed off from the comment a bit, as yes, saying it never took off was quite outlandish. Of what you said, yes, C++ (is) more efficient as it's not running through the "virtual machine", but that was more-so in the past. Read up on it (an article from 2003).

OnlyCurious, many colleges rely heavily on Java as it's a great intro language and a huge community supporting it (not to say C++ doesn't, but, go check out the resource-quantity comparison on Google).

Then you must realize, some things you're indirectly making comparisons to ("big companies"), such as an operating system, cannot be coded in any part by Java for the obvious reason of the necessary virtual machine. So yeah, don't except to work with Microsoft and get away with knowing solely Java. Then again, if you like what you do, and in being a programmer, you should - you'll have experience with all of the common stuff, from binary, assembly up through the latest C#.

As far as big companies using Java, do some more research, and you may be surprised.

[OnlyCurious]

Originally Posted by Vormund

Then please read follow-up posts before quoting like that. Of what you said, yes, C++ (is) more efficient as it's not running through the "virtual machine", but that was more-so in the past. Read up on it (an article from 2003).

OnlyCurious, many colleges rely heavily on Java as it's a great intro language and a huge community supporting it (not to say C++ doesn't, but, go check out the resource-quantity comparison on Google).

Then you must realize, some things you're indirectly making comparisons to ("big companies"), such as an operating system, cannot be coded in any part by Java for the obvious reason of the necessary virtual machine. So yeah, don't except to work with Microsoft and get away with knowing solely Java. Then again, if you like what you do, and in being a programmer, you should - you'll have experience with all of the common stuff, from binary, assembly up through the latest C#.

As far as big companies using Java, do some more research, and you may be surprised.

Big companies use C++ as their foundation. I'm not saying big companies don't use Java, I already said it was a generalization and Java is a bonus if you know it. Actually, I disagree with you on the college students starting out with Java, there are so many schools that make C++ the fundamentals of computing. Java is an option in most universities.

Edit: It's almost all computer science schools that start students off with C++.

Maybe a community college might start students off with Java.... who knows, I've never attended a community college.

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by OnlyCurious

Big companies use C++ as their foundation. I'm not saying big companies don't use Java, I already said it was a generalization and Java is a bonus if you know it. Actually, I disagree with you on the college students starting out with Java, there are so many schools that make C++ the fundamentals of computing. Java is an option in most colleges.

My college info was also 'generalizing' off of what I know and have seen, but that's for a half-dozen or so colleges, and I know all have optional classes of every variety (C++, Java, etc.)...so I'll concur on that aspect, but I guess it's one of those two, in general...eh? Actually, I would think C would be the foundation (instead of C++). Regardless, it's one of those...hah.

From what I've seen in the job-world (through talking with people from working at smaller to the larger companies), C seems to be more widely used versus C++ just for the sake of those who never learned C++ back in the day (at least, that's what I hear).

Either way, some numbers would be nice, so if you have some spare time, Google some statistics and surprise us all. Everyone bases too much off of what they hear... and I'm no exception. :rolleyes:

Edit: I did attend a community college, but they don't push one over the other. Generally it seemed that they aimed for the local university's standard, but adjust if you're shipping off to a different four-year. Then again, that's ignoring their two-year degree in any area, but I'm sure it varies as the universities do.

[OnlyCurious]

Source: Computer programmers
This says it all:
"Different programming languages are used depending on the purpose of the program. COBOL, for example, is commonly used for business applications, whereas Fortran (short for “formula translation”) is used in science and engineering. C++ is widely used for both scientific and business applications. Extensible Markup Language (XML) has become a popular programming tool for Web programmers, along with J2EE (Java 2 Platform). "

My point from the beginning was that C++ is used more WIDELY, no matter if it is a small company or a big company. In the industry there are MORE "scientific and business" (C++)applications than "Web" applications (Java). Java was derived from C++, and yes they both have pros/cons, but my point is that you'll have more options in the industry if you chose C++ over Java. And like I have been saying, learning Java on the side is a bonus. Efficiency is also an issue in software development, and C++ GENERALLY is faster than Java.

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by OnlyCurious

and C++ GENERALLY is faster than Java.

Ok, I'll go for that, noting that the above quote is a big generalization.

Kind-of off topic, but if you have a programming job, what language(s) do you work with?

[OnlyCurious]

Originally Posted by Vormund

Ok, I'll go for that, noting that the above quote is a big generalization.

Kind-of off topic, but if you have a programming job, what language(s) do you work with?

I'm a student right now. And all the internships I've looked at all requires C++. But I would definitely like to learn Java, gives me more to write on my resume. All of the internships I've come across, Java is named under "Desired Skills" rather than "Required Skills". Not only for internships but for jobs as well. I've seen so many jobs like this... that's why I'm so stubborn about C++ being the dominating language. If you look at big companies like apple or microsoft, they list C++ as a MUST, but Java as a PLUS. I just went into these companies just now to confirm this... you can check yourself.

Edit: What languages do you work with? Seems like your in the industry already...