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Search Tech-Forums - link takes you to our Forum's search page. Note: The following is only a text archive! To view the actual forum discussion, please visit our website at http://www.tech-forums.net Pages:1 technology computer degrees, programs, certifications(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)Posted by: Larry What computer degree should I get? Should I get certified in java? What technology job or degree pays the most money? What computer degree with offer me the best career? Should I become an computer expert in one degree or become a jack of all trades? These questions and more are the focus of this forum topic? I hope everyone can offer your questions, opinions, and answers. Thanks Posted by: dethangel i currenlty have my A+ and im working on my CCNA, then i will try for my MCSE, after that my permanent job with dictate what other degrees i get, any1 have any suggestions on what i should go for? Posted by: trugoy i'm interested in getting A+ certified myself to start off with.. but thinking of doing it online...anyone with any online course suggestions for reasonable prices.. thanks in advance Posted by: Psycluded I've got a worthless BS in CS, with an emphasis in programming... the job market is just terrible right now for programmers. Posted by: Quantum Job market is terrible for everything. I can't find a job with A+/Network+ if I had too. Even psych jobs are hard to find...at least research oriented ones. Good luck, Psycluded. Posted by: kirk1701 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Quantum [/i] [B]Job market is terrible for everything. I can't find a job with A+/Network+ if I had too. Even psych jobs are hard to find...at least research oriented ones. Good luck, Psycluded. [/B][/QUOTE] .....[edited by larry] ....jobs are there, takes some effort and you must look for them, besides the school where I am going has job placement for all students. Might not be what you want to be doing but sure puts some money in the pocketbook. Posted by: stormy78 Oh god, not this again.... For the record, I'd like to state that I've been looking for almost every type of job in the book that I'm qualified for and can find nothing. Right now the only chance I have for a job is a friend of mine that works at a restaurant, yes a restaurant. Right now I'll work just about anywhere to make an honest living. I 'tried' the computer field and still want to at some point, but guess what, I'm not experienced enough for anyone to consider me for a job in that field. The only thing I can think to do is start my own business, building PC's, working on them for ppl etc, and yes I 'can' do that regardless if you want to believe it or not. If it works, it works. If not, oh well, life goes on. Besides, I thought the topic was to 'help' ppl with their questions, not tell someone to go see a psych. Jeez... dethangel, you can probably work on what you're doing and then see what happens. That's just about all I can tell you, bro. That's really all I can say to any of you, that and good luck :) Posted by: kirk1701 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stormy78 [/i] [B]Oh god, not this again.... For the record, I'd like to state that I've been looking for almost every type of job in the book that I'm qualified for and can find nothing. Right now the only chance I have for a job is a friend of mine that works at a restaurant, yes a restaurant. Right now I'll work just about anywhere to make an honest living. I 'tried' the computer field and still want to at some point, but guess what, I'm not experienced enough for anyone to consider me for a job in that field. The only thing I can think to do is start my own business, building PC's, working on them for ppl etc, and yes I 'can' do that regardless if you want to believe it or not. If it works, it works. If not, oh well, life goes on. Besides, I thought the topic was to 'help' ppl with their questions, not tell someone to go see a psych. Jeez... dethangel, you can probably work on what you're doing and then see what happens. That's just about all I can tell you, bro. That's really all I can say to any of you, that and good luck :) [/B][/QUOTE] As I said, it might not be doing what you want to be doing but work is work and = $ in pocket. YES, there are a lot of jobs out there and no body needs to give you a road map to wal-mart for we are sure you know your way, and they are always hiring specially with the holidays right around the corner. I also seen ads in the paper for burger king and as you mentioned restaurants, nothing wrong with that unless you can't swallow pride. Just got home from class and stopped at Lowes on the way home, big sign on the Entrance doors "NOW HIRING" and that was just one place I stopped. Which just goes to prove jobs are out there and sure there are others. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Quantum [/i] [B]Kirk, not all of us can live off unemployment benefits for over a year. If anyone needs a job, you do. BTW, my univesity does have job placement but economy is bad. Kirk, when is the last time you actually earned anything? [/B][/QUOTE] To answer your question last week, Volunteer at the school to help rebuild the network at the new campus, plus business coming in for me and a partner from network support ads placed in local paper and contry peddler, goes to show you haven't touched a paper to look for a job. Posted by: ajnabee Hi All, I have had an excellent experience in my Cisco certification process and I feel necessary to share it with you. I took my training at Epsolon Networks Inc. and I was able to do my CCDA, Network+ as well as CCNA through their curriculum. They have an excellent instructor that teaches based on his experience in the field and they have THE BEST lab you can imagine. They are very considerate and they also helped me get a job as soon as I passed my CCNA. They give the first two classes free for you to try and so their classes are risk free. They have one of the lowest fees too. Worth a try if you want to do Cisco certification like CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, Network+, Firewall, voice over technology and so on. Feel free to call them if you have any questions or you may check their website at [url]http://wwww.epsolon.com[/url] Posted by: stormy78 Well, by looking, I mean putting in applications, sending resume's etc. I sit by the phone day after day and keep my cell phone turned on for any contacts: Nothing. I can send a mile long list to everyone here stating everywhere I've been in the past year and a half If you don't believe me, you can ask a 'very good friend' of mine. Yes, I do have pride in myself and standards of where I will only work, but in times like this when the economy is in shambles and university students dominate the workforce, that pride is washed away and the only alternative is to work where I can. Does anyone here have any idea what I'm going through here? Broke, barely enough money to put food on your table, buy clothes, take care of two animals that care dearly for and pay your bills? The only things I have to be thankful for is a loving father who provides his home for a place to live. I think anyone else would be out on the street or sleeping in a homeless shelter. Now, I don't mean to drag this topic along while trying to get it back on subject, but so help me god I will get my point across. Try living in my situation and maybe you'll open your eyes. Posted by: kirk1701 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stormy78 [/i] [B]Well, by looking, I mean putting in applications, sending resume's etc. I sit by the phone day after day and keep my cell phone turned on for any contacts: Nothing. I can send a mile long list to everyone here stating everywhere I've been in the past year and a half If you don't believe me, you can ask a 'very good friend' of mine. Yes, I do have pride in myself and standards of where I will only work, but in times like this when the economy is in shambles and university students dominate the workforce, that pride is washed away and the only alternative is to work where I can. Does anyone here have any idea what I'm going through here? Broke, barely enough money to put food on your table, buy clothes, take care of two animals that care dearly for and pay your bills? The only things I have to be thankful for is a loving father who provides his home for a place to live. I think anyone else would be out on the street or sleeping in a homeless shelter. Now, I don't mean to drag this topic along while trying to get it back on subject, but so help me god I will get my point across. Try living in my situation and maybe you'll open your eyes. [/B][/QUOTE] Sometimes you have to be a salesperson to get a job, and sales people don't send SPAM, they knock on doors. Once an employeer sees you are agresive they will think you will be the same on the job, then think twice or hire you just to get you off their back. 1. Send resume', wait a week. 2. Call and follow up with did they get your resume'. If they don't remeber it send it again, wait another week. 3. Time to start keeping track of those resumes' you've sent twice, don't call for second time go to place of business in person. 4. Be persistent, agresive, and don't take no for an answer unless its for good reason. 5. When you visit the place of business, make sure you have a copy of the resume', they can't say they didn't get it now. 6. Follow up again in a week till they come out and say sorry we are not hiring or plain out tell you NO! Posted by: Larry IMO, the best way to get a job is to NOT follow the sheep. You need to stand out, companies have stacks of resumes. 100s or 1000s, of them. You do not want to be just another resume do you. Being creative to get a job is what I think it takes to get a job in this market. And creative is a very flexible term. Posted by: stormy78 Thanks for all the advice. It's greatly appreciated. Posted by: chalk Unfortunately Networking is important - Social networking. The last 5 It jobs I had, was through friends or ex co-workers etc. who gave a recomendation. Find all those co-workers you ever worked with... Nepotism, the old boy's network, etc are unfortunately pretty common from what I've seen. As an IT Manager in a previous job, I admit that I filled positions with people I knew or on the recommendation of a co-worker or friend. Taking a gamble with a pile of 500+ resumes which all have certs didn't appeal to me - terrible of me, and I do feel bad...especially with all the people looking nowadays. I did interview recommended people, of course, and got adept and witholding my smile when they asked for 60k plus. I hope those that are looking for work, find it. I was unemployed for almost a year, and I know it can get disheartening... chalk Posted by: James Im also out for jobs, but in Singapore.. The labour market in SG is also very bad. Although our government kept emphasizing that companies are re-employing again, well ya, they are... But surely they dun expect a degree graduate with IT knowledge to become an admin assistant and taking phone call, record schedules... So, basically, ******** to me. I had a piece of worthless Bsc ISM from UOL, LSE. Worthless coz they dun teach much abt IT or programming... My IT knowledge were obtain by web surfing, A+, N+ and MCP(WIN2K pro, Server and network) courses i attended... having conflicts with the private school that allow me to do my MCSE course now, they cant continue my MCSE course but i had paid.. And they wanted me to transfer my credits to CCNA but at the same time, they dun have enuff students to start off... Absolutely ****ed... The last interview i had, that fellow offered me SG$1400 for consultation position.. I didnt accept it, coz its bloody low... daylight robbery. *sigh sigh sigh* Posted by: James So basically, im doing freelance now.. Doing System consultation for peeps if there is any. Sigh.... the last project i had was 1 mth ago... and the payout is low and troublesome... Singaporean's mentality is, want cheap and good.... Im a Singaporean but i can't stand it. *urgghhhh* Posted by: Ken Masters I just quickly read through this thread. The ones here that are looking for work, have you not considered volunteering or looking for an internship to gain some experience? I've been looking for work as web designer/developer for a while now with no luck. Now I'm moving into networking. When I've finish my certfication I plan on just knocking on peoples doors asking for volunteer work. Faxing/emailing resumes doesn't work. You need to get in their face. Just my two cents. Posted by: Soloman02 I am in my junior year of high school, and was thinking of going into the IT/network field after getting a degree in colledge. Now, with the market the way it is(although the market might be better in five years) would it be worth my while to get my A+ and a 4 year degree in IT/networking? Posted by: RyanOldw83 I just graduated And have my MCSA... one more test now for MCSE. I'm doubting myself because I have been AGRESSIVELY searching for jobs to no avail for over 5 months. 23k for school and i cant get a job to earn any of my money back :( By all means go get an IT degree, its better to persue knowledge than wish you had. The market will get better eventually *prays* :) Til then, anyone in Maryland wanna hook a fellow techie up with a little job?? :D Posted by: kotuadam I read through the thread and I dont feel all that good now. I am a freshman in college with a MIS major declared. I love computers and I have been living with it for years. It is my hobby. But as far as what the word is out there, the IT industry looks like its in a not much promising state.. Correct me if I am mistaken... First of all I wana ask straight forward this.. Is it worth making a career in MIS or CS ? My self I am not really into coding, programming but I always have the potential interest to it.. but it just seems too painful sometimes... not sure.. And I am interested in security. Is it a more solid field in IT ? Security sector ? What are the distinctive differencies between the main IT fields? I dont really know about the field yet, all I know is I love computers and business. Any explanaatory ideas, suggestions, information is appreciated. Thanks. Posted by: Mage what do people think of it jobs being sent to other nations? Posted by: Larry kotuadam: I have MIS degree and LOVE it! Although I graduated in 95... the times/markets have changed but the industry/businesses have not. After graduating, I worked at a traveling consultant for 5 years (one of the Big 6 firms... at the time). I did custom application development. The skills/knowledge/experience I got from doing that was awesome. Your statement about "not liking coding/programing"... pretty confusing. Why would you want a MIS/CS degree if you don't like them? That does not mean the ONLY thing a MIS / CS major does is code, but you got to start at the bottom. Of all the phases of a project life cycle, most people need to learn who to code before they: write requirements, manage, budget, analyze, etc. etc. anyway, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A HUGE DEMAND for MIS / CS majors. The IT field will ALWAYS grow. Well, let me change that statement, there will always be a demand for "GOOD" MIS / CS majors. During the late 90s, everyone wanted to be a programmer. They thought, if I can learn java... I can make 150K a year. Easy as that. I believe the last 3 years have weeded out the people wanting a free ride. AND companies learned that NOT ANYONE can do the job. The last 3 years will soon give way to high demand to qualified MIS / CS majors. Thoses degrees will soon be paid a premium, just like before. Its a cycle! Good Luck Posted by: Larry Mage: Companies will learn that getting cheap labor will not always increase the bottom line. That lesson will be learned the hard way. Now, obviously, some companies will succeed in sending work to places with cheap workers. But some will try and fail! I would like to see a mission critical application be developed over the phone, with a language barrier :) Not going to happen! anyway, just my thoughts Oh, one more thing, even when 10 jobs are lost to overseas job, SOMEBODY must manage the project. Posted by: digital_darknes Im CCNA and CCNP and i have a pretty good job. Just in my opinion, MCSE will not help you much, not even if your working for microsoft. It is a bunch of useless tests. CCNA will get you an alright job 30-50k a year, CCNP will get you anywhere from 50-70k. I make 75 being a network admin. I love my job but i put up with alot of crap as the rest of netmin's do. Now, if you have a CCIE, your a god. You can go anywhere and get any computer job in the world. I know 1 person who has this and he makes 200k being a netmin. Posted by: Larry say... can you explain all the letters? CCIE, CCNP, MSCE, CCNP, CCNA. What are they? What are the differences between them? Pros/Cons, etc. Thanks, Hopefully it will help some of our readers who are wondering what they should do? :) Posted by: digital_darknes Sure! CCNA stands for cisco certified network associate. This is the bottom level of cisco cert's but even at the bottom i still believe this one to be better than any microsoft cert. With a CCNA your basically a network maintence man. You can fix a range of network problems and in my opinion this is a must have for a netmin. CCNP is a cisco certified network professional - the difference between the ccna and the ccnp at least for me where that the CCNP goes more in depth into network technologies, more WANs and MAN's. All of the cisco certs give you a lot of router expierience which has been great for me, it is also great fun. Now, for the big daddy of them all, CCIE stands for cisco certified internet expert. I dont have this and not a lot of people do. The one person i know who does have this, is a very smart man. From what i have heard, the CCIE is 10 grand to even take the test, you then have to fly to san jose california to take the test at cisco, they give you actual problems, give you a day to fix it. You then go home and someone comes in and messes 1 little thing up, the next day you come in and have to fix the problem that they created. Not an easy thing. There are stories of people just stopping in the middle of the test and going home because they could not fix the problems. Posted by: digital_darknes Oh forgot 1. The MCSE stands for Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. Microsoft claims this is a big one, but the only thing that makes it big is that there are 7 tests. The only personality trait i think this shows is persistance. I think this one is a crock though. They take everything in thier MCSE books, and spread it over 7 different tests. They arent that hard from what i hear eaither. The hardest test to take are the cisco from what i have seen. They give router prompts in thier cert tests, they also give the questions "select all that apply" and it is very hard. They make sure you know your stuff. Posted by: RyanOldw83 One of them is hard... the rest were a cakewalk. :) Posted by: sutty777 Get the MCSE, A+, Network+, and any of the Programming Cert's if you so choose. If you want to make the most $ take the Cisco Cert. If you have alot of experience at PC's then you really can find jobs without any Certs. Most jobs ask for Certs or time and experience. Try to apply at any of State Civil Service Positions. Posted by: trev [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Larry [/i] [B]What computer degree should I get? Should I get certified in java? What technology job or degree pays the most money? What computer degree with offer me the best career? Should I become an computer expert in one degree or become a jack of all trades? These questions and more are the focus of this forum topic? I hope everyone can offer your questions, opinions, and answers. Thanks [/B][/QUOTE] I think you could have a BSc in Comp Science, cuz this degree has a mix of comp stuff in it. You should get those "profesional technology certifications" (e.g. Oracle). Posted by: HoLoCroN What I did was diversify my degree. I got an associates in computer science (concentrating in Networking) A bachelors in business administration and am thinking of working on a masters in education..... This will give leverage to get into any field available. Computers...... Business........ Education...... Heck, with a masters in education.. I could go out and teach your networking coursed part time... while I keep my sys. admin position... Who knows, I think the wise thing to do is diversify, the market is very competitive and gone are the days of specialists in just one thing... Now people have to be adaptable and able to work on multiple tasks.... not just all networking or hardware but everything. A little programming, a little networking, a little systems administration, a little hardware. once you can offer these skills, you will become more competitive in a marketplace that has already been saturated... Posted by: killians45 Well, yes there are STILL Jobs out there. Who ever said the MSCE tests are easy were VERY misinformed, UNLESS you cheat and goto the "we'll teach you the answers to the tests" schools. Trust me, a friend went and they REALLY teach you the answers, among the normal curriculum. Anyhow, the tests are NOT easy. I finally have my MCSE. My electives were for Active Directory Design and Network Infrastructure design. Those tests, for example, have 50 questions each, in 5 parts of 10 questions and each scenario is over 2 pages. They are not multiple guess. You could have 10 choices, and to get the answer correct you need to chose 8 of them. Just like some of the Cisco (practice tests I've done only), some of the questions answers are all correct. You have to choose the BEST approach. As far as job wise, dont hesitate to put a resume were you are underqualified!!!! Trust me, this current job was posted for someone with experience in VBasic 6.0, SQL/TRANS, HTML, .NET, CISCO, MCSE/networking, CIMBasic/CIMplicity, GE FANUC PLC series and ladder logic, and standard hardware support to also include running conduit and electrical systems. Well, I got this job. They put all that in to find someone who is CLOSE to this, knowing full well that not everyone is going to know all this crap... especially considering CIMBasic is not a well known program. So I pretty much had to start learning some program'n, but learn I did. Learned SQL to some degree, too. Point is, dont NOT put in a resume because you're underqualified. Thats just what they desire, which MAY be out of the realm of possibility, just think of it as fishing high. Letting people know what you want, and then sorting through to get whats available. Anyhow, good luck to you all in the job hunt! I'm working on a few other certs. Cisco and Citrix. MCP MCSA MCSE Posted by: wead its all about networking - making connections in the biz. I am a systems admin I have NO certs, NO degree, I just happened to know the CEO. :X. Although you should get degrees for the money. If I had a degree Id be making 4x what I am. Posted by: Tech-Jobs.com Old thread.... but technology jobs are slowly making a rebound, but it is still a little foggy to determine which jobs are the best. Also, 'high tech' jobs definition is becoming a little misconstrued. I have seen simple jobs such as cashiers at supermarkets be described as 'high tech jobs' just because the cash registers are computerized...lol Posted by: Sherndon Almost sad that this is the END. Thanks for all the info this will definitely help me make some decisions on where my focus will be in my CS degree. Posted by: VICone It sucks that I'm in school right now studying for my A+ and N+. Hearing that IT jobs are scarce doesn't make me feel good about my future. ..eh but I guess an education is an education right. Posted by: hambo_12 One quick question. I am currently employed as a junior in the company I work for. I work in IS Support (thats what they call it). My boss has asked me if I wish to do a degree thorugh distance education while working. I am very keen to do it. Does anyone have any comments on this? Have you done the same? I know this is a stupid question, but how hard would it be to study at home and work during the day? Posted by: Larry If someone is paying for your education... by all means take it!!! Since its your boss, I HOPE he/she understands that school takes time and to do well in school, somedays you need extra time. study at home/work during the day... Only you can answer that question. Just plan out your days, imagine your doing both. it takes a big commitment to do both... if your committed, you can do it. good luck Posted by: hambo_12 thanks yeah I would never turn down an offer like this! I know it will be hard, but he will allow me to study while on the job, so I think I will manage. Posted by: MrIT Not sure what you're interested in specifically Larry, but I can tell you what I did... I got a Bachelors degree in Information Technology which gave me a good overview of Networking, databases, programming & project management. Then I chose the specific field in IT that I really wanted to do & I am now working on my masters degree in it. I chose to specialize on security.... it's harder to outsource/offshore security... especially since I want to work for the government. :) Security is a really hot field right now... you might consider specializing in it. If not security then, a Bachelors in IT & then getting some more subject matter specific certifications to show your specific skills off to potential employers would be good. Hope I helped atleast a little. Posted by: NIN The hardest part is getting experience. If you want a position enough you will go out and find work, paid or not. I had an internship that didn't pay me anything unless I did onsite work. Now I am at a huge health care company that pays well for the work you have to do. I am more of a baby sitter and alert the proper team what is wrong. I think everybody should have an experience with a mainframe. They are more stable than anything I have ever seen and supports a huge amount of users. they just need a full time crew to keep it running. Anyway the best advice I can give you is not go give up and put whatever you can on your resume. Posted by: gab00n I will be taking the CWNA (certified wireless network administrator) course this semester for fun, i plan on going all the way to CWNP. With all these wireless networks popping op i think it is a good choice, when i am done i will post how good it is. You should also look into the security area, some good ones there are the CISSP, SSCP, N+ and S+. Posted by: Bigotes Originally wanting to get into Computer Engineering, to pay my way in University, I decided to do an Associate Diploma in Electrical Engineering at TAFE (Technical College) and hoped to take up a University course in Computer Engineering or Computer Science while working in the industry. Half way through, the government scrapped it and I had to restart it under a new name. In due time I was finishing the course but seeing little chance of breaking into electronics (from 2 years' worth of rejections), I decided to break into IT with a couple of courses in programming (to strengthen my background in C and C++). Today, 6 years after finishing my studies with pretty decent marks, I sit at the age of 35 working as a storeman at a barbecue store getting paid barely more than minimum wage. The conclusion here for any aussies reading this, don't bother studying at TAFE or any other little private institutes if you want a job in IT,electronics or comms. If you want to go the road of studies, get marks as high as possible in your HSC and try to get into University but be prepared for 4 to 6 years of utter poverty (eating 2 min. noodles and tap water while sharing a flat with 4 other students or living with mom and dad). Otherwise, be prepared to work for free for any possible non profit organization for about 10 to 20 years, open a business, see it fail, become a wiz in networking and pc troubleshooting, keep working for free and in time you may be able to break into the market. The other alternative is having a dad already in the industry who's weaned you off the teat straight into PCs and has always provided you with hardware to play with, so that by the age of 15 you are a wiz kid with a wide range of knowledge in programming, networking, web design, etc. (usually these kids fall straight into a job). Good luck. Posted by: Lawrence to AMK, U should consider coming to Kenya. Employers in Kenya love foreigners. U can get a job with any hopeless degree provided it be foren! Ya buddy; Lawrence Posted by: cfreeland hi i am looking for some opinions in what kind of field in computers should i get into i dont know a lot but im not an idiot when it comes to computers well really the only thing i know how to do is repair and build one and im currently trying to learn how to write programs can anyone give me some opinions Posted by: James Im having problems clearing my 70-291 and 70-290. Did testking, but im always very close to passing the 700 point, just never make it. Any tips? Posted by: hammers i would like to move to the us at some stage, but it sounds like its hard to get a job in IT at the mo, also hard to get to the US full stop for us brits. what do you need to get into IT over there? quick background i started in the build shop for 4-5 yrs and now on clients sites since 98, have one mcp in win 2000 install admin etc etc any ideas guys? Posted by: hammers bump Posted by: kerriganm I recently got a Master's Degree in Web Design and Development, and I've found it has helped me. I've been a web designer for years, but then the Great Bust came and there wasn't a job to be had. Things are getting better in the Silicon Valley area (slowly). And the degree gave me credibility. cfreeland: I think database administration is always a good way to go, but others might know better than I. Posted by: BoobieSrUs Im getting my certificate in Computer Programming threw PCDI :) Im pretty proud! Learning visual Basic 6.0, fun fun :) Posted by: jdough76 I am new to this forum and would like to say hi to all out there first and foremost. I know this seems like a lot of info at once but .... enjoy. I see there is a big problem with finding a job in the US. I think there always was and always will be, not just in the US but all over. I am currently working on a few certifications myself to include CCNA, CCNP, and Foundry Network Cert. I just started a new job in Germany and before I even started work they sent me to Foundry Switching Class (because these are the products we use). Good class. I have curently no commercial certifications. I have been working as a contractor (in Germany) for the US Govt. for a couple years. It is not a bad gig. Money is usually pretty good due to the fact that most Germans cannot get a security clearance to do the work that we do. I think that my security clearance is a big reason why I am able to get employment here (or anywhere in the Govt.) but also because I have a very broad resume that covers everything from Video-teleconferencing technologies to computer repair/admin, to networking, to training, to etc. etc. I have not mastered any one field but am well versed in the majority. This is the first time that I am working on switching/routing specialty but even without a certification I was picked up for the job and get paid pretty well (70K+). I have enough credits to get my degree but haven't finnished that yet either. I do have certifications from the military for different network and admin courses that are offered but in the private sector they are not worth much (as far as I know). I think the best advice I can give to anyone on here who is listening is be persistant! Don't give up the fight for your dream job! When I was in school the first time I was taking electronic engineering and wanted to start my own stereo/hi-fi buisness (my dream job)... Lost my ride and entered the military with no clue as to what I was getting into. I ended up working in the Army as a commo specialist (radio transmission). While in the army I took all the opertunities I had to get back to school and take classes (geared toward BS in CS). Learned a whole lot and kept updating my resume waiting for the day I would leave the Army. I got out and landed a job (after a good 3-6 months of prying and pestering) as a telecommunications specialist... although I was put into the training department beacuse I had experince training soldiers... (anyone in the army with a Sergeant rank does).. worked that for a year and then the company sent me to Video-teleconferncing hub to work. Worked there for 2 years and decided to move on to something a little better (money wise) didn't work out the way I planned and ended up being unemployed for about 4 months..... At first I wasn't really worried but after the 2nd month I thought that was the end. Kept calling people I have met over the years to find job leads along with mailing my resume out to every company I could find ([url]www.usajobs.com[/url] [url]www.monster.com[/url]) and ended up getting in contact with an old work collegue. First thing he ask was "tell me your looking for a job" Yeah!!! so that puts me where I currently am. I try to help people out as much as I can but you can only lead a horse to water.... Just another example... my brother just finished his Bachelors in Physics... You would think that you could get a pretty nice job with that. He is working as a surveyor right now.. nothing to do with physics. Wierd how the world works. He is still looking for a job in physics but for right now he has to pay the bills. Lucky enough our parents have space for him at the house still. Strike up conversations with people.. Ask around casually... go to a couple technology fairs (no matter how small). ****... go to best buy or circuit city for god sakes and listen to people walking around the computer department... they are looking for people to help them.... Believe me I used to work there and I handed out a lot of my own personal buisness cards even though I didn't have a buisness (I made rent a couple times working on peoples personal computers and home theater equipment). If you have a nerdy Microsoft or CISCO polo you got from a class you took wear it once in a while people will ask you if you are a computer guy. Use that pen that the CISCO rep gave you ... to write checks with. Keep your eyes open. TAKE EVERYONES BUISNESS CARD!!!!!!!...get every contact you can and keep it somewhere safe... you never know who you will meet and never know if they will be your future boss or someone who can offer you a job somewhere. Update your resume every couple months and put EVERYTHING related to the job your looking for... (just learned how to use MS access or OUTLOOK correctly.. put it on there,,,, just installed DSL at your house with a wiresless router on the LAN.. put it on there (some NIC configuration, DHCP/TCPIP, IEEE 802.x, OSI Layer 1, 2/3, wireless/router and ADSL experience). Don't neglect anything that you know and don't take anything you do that is computer/network/developer related for granted. If you do have a job get all the training and education you can out of it. Take classes and get those degrees/certs no matter how much the market says you have slim chances of getting a job the Tech field will only get bigger and better. No one likes a salesman but to get a good job you have to be one whether you like it or not. I hate being a saleman and I hate listening to a salesman but I know that either I tell him to leave me alone or I end up walking out of the store with a product he recomended. If your the salesman the company your pitching to will either tell you to go away or they will offer you a job. Lastly... before I put you to sleep.. If you do have a Networking/computer background and posses a US security clearance and would be interested in workin for the US govt in Europe, please feel free to contact me... I can get you on here or forward your resume to someone who might be able to help you out. IT IS ALL ABOUT NETWORKING AND USING CONTACTS> On the flipside if anyone has a 6 figure position open please let me know. Regards to all and don't give up the fight.... ever. Good luck on the hunt. Posted by: raross If you want a GOOD computer job making A LOT of money. Consider Bioinformatics. Most people has never even heard of this, but the job market for it is beginning to bloom. You will defintly need a 4 year degree, and probally masters. But you will not have to worry about getting a job or your salary. In Bioinformatics you are programming life, classifying life using huge databases. Its really a neat job to get into it. Its like a mix of Computer Science and Biology. This is where computer science was 40 years ago, so you can imagine how fast this technology is growing. Posted by: lewisb Last time I just payed for inferior products that are much cheaper Braindumps. Don't believe on it. What is most important is knowledge of things for which you are going to work. I failed 1Z0-147 exam. I'm trying again, started using materials on net which are free and relevant as well. Looking for good books and exam simulation on low price. My pocket couldn't afford much expences but need realistic stuff. Don't want to waste my time and money. Posted by: raross Braindumps and the like are not right and if your caught with these things you can lose all ur certs and be banned from getting anymore certifications. Its kind of hard explaining this to your employers. Everyone is crunching down on these companies that distribute these "cheat sheets", microsoft, comptia, cisco etc. They have no tolerance policies, and they request logs from these sites which sell these certifications. If your caught buying, owning, or anything else you will lose all your certifications and be banned from getting any like I said. Your better off learning the material, then getting a cert that doesnt have any value because you dont know any of the material. Just get a book, learn the material, practice the concepts, and take the test! If you have failed these tests numerous amounts of times, then you should realize your not ready for the test and go back and study the books etc. Dont just try to jump right in, it takes time obtaining these certs, if it didnt they wouldnt be worth much. Posted by: jdough76 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by raross [/i] [B]Braindumps and the like are not right and if your caught with these things you can lose all ur certs and be banned from getting anymore certifications. Its kind of hard explaining this to your employers......... [/B][/QUOTE] My question is who is to say the person who is using the material is not already in a job where it is required to have this certification. Just an example: Say someone is hired fresh out of college with a BS in CS working for a service provider who happens to use Cisco products exclusively. The college kid has no experience with Cisco products but does have routing knowledge... so the company gives the kid a chance. They expect him however to study and continue his education and to grow with the company. Let's say (just for GP) that the boss tells this young man that he expects him to get at a minimum, his CCNA within 6 months of starting work. The boss feels that this will at least get the young man a better "book" knowledge of what is going on and how to work on the routers. He has to cram to pass the CCNA within 6 months. I read on another thread that someone was taking the A+ course as part of his college courses and they wanted him in class for 9 months... for a **** A+ cert. I understand what your saying and yes I think the best knowledge is hands on and time but I also think that is a little harsh to say that you shouldn't be allowed to use cram session or whatever else. I have not heard of this but if you say it's true then more power to them (the companies who are enforcing this). You can't just look at a situation and stereotype it as being the same across the board for everyone. Just a thought. John Posted by: raross Cram sessions, sure. The guy said braindumps, which are usually almost the exact questions on the exam. Cram sessions or whatever are more like notes on everything etc. Which is fine, because your actually learning the material instead of memorizing the questions on the test. Thats why these companies are cracking down on these sites that offer "Braindumps" that contain the exact same questions that are on the actual test. The test security is starting to go backup, as more and more ppl are being caught with these braindumps. Which is good, it makes the certification "worth more." I couldnt agree with you more about that situation and using exam cram books or whatever you mentioned. Posted by: lleeinaz Well this is my first day on this forum and I applied to an employeer with only my A+ hard core accomplished and currently doing my OS on my resume. The employeer immediatly emailed me back asking me to call back. Guess what I landed a job building PC's. Not Bad and I feel good about it, atleast I got my foot in the door, no matter the salary, Im settling for the time being. Posted by: jdough76 Congrats lleeinaz. Sounds like a winner. I couldn't agree with you more. A foot in the door is better than a hand in the bush..... hold on.. You know what I mean. LOL Anyway. Good luck with the new venture. Cheers to you!! One. Posted by: raross Yeah, everyone has to start somewhere. Although it would make your life easier with a degree. Posted by: gospel I've been a member here for awhile but never looked in this section before. Let's see what you folks think about my situation. I have worked at a large hospital for 20 years. Approx. 5 years ago I became very interested in computers as a hobby. I learned so much about them that I solve a lot of the problems that the IT guys in our facility can't. Time after time I would be called to a dept. to solve a pc problem after the IT guys left. I was then put in charge of the Security/Access control system of the facility which is totally computer software and firmware driven. This all sounds good except for the fact that they will not give me any more $ due to the fact that I am not certified and the IT dept. will not give me a job because I know more than the PC tech supervisor. I am currently, with a CompTIA recommended manual, studying for my A+ certification. I am not going to wait much longer to take the test because I scored a 79% overall on the practice test before even looking at the manual. I'm just wondering, with my experience included, if an A+ certification is going to make a difference in getting a job somewhere else? Posted by: raross [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gospel [/i] [B]I've been a member here for awhile but never looked in this section before. Let's see what you folks think about my situation. I have worked at a large hospital for 20 years. Approx. 5 years ago I became very interested in computers as a hobby. I learned so much about them that I solve a lot of the problems that the IT guys in our facility can't. Time after time I would be called to a dept. to solve a pc problem after the IT guys left. I was then put in charge of the Security/Access control system of the facility which is totally computer software and firmware driven. This all sounds good except for the fact that they will not give me any more $ due to the fact that I am not certified and the IT dept. will not give me a job because I know more than the PC tech supervisor. I am currently, with a CompTIA recommended manual, studying for my A+ certification. I am not going to wait much longer to take the test because I scored a 79% overall on the practice test before even looking at the manual. I'm just wondering, with my experience included, if an A+ certification is going to make a difference in getting a job somewhere else? [/B][/QUOTE] Well since you probally have built up experience and time at that hospital, the A+ wouldnt really do you any good anywhere else. A+ is strictly entry level, I doubt you would want to quit your hospital job for a 7 dollar an hour pc repair job. Seems like you should get into the more difficult Cisco certifications. I think if you were to pass a bunch of them, your hospital would pay you more for what you were doing or if they recommend going back to school or doing night classes for network admin. Posted by: armel Greetings all, this is my first post , it has been an interesting read and i have learnt much from all the different opinions and experiences. jdough76 thanks for the great post of ways to develop my skills and improve my opportunities to get a job. instead of arguing over which is more important "degree vs certification vs experience" i hope to see more posts on how each of u go about to getting a job that wold be more educational. hope to get more info thanks guys Posted by: raross [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by armel [/i] [B]Greetings all, this is my first post , it has been an interesting read and i have learnt much from all the different opinions and experiences. jdough76 thanks for the great post of ways to develop my skills and improve my opportunities to get a job. instead of arguing over which is more important "degree vs certification vs experience" i hope to see more posts on how each of u go about to getting a job that wold be more educational. hope to get more info thanks guys [/B][/QUOTE] It's obvious which one is more important. Posted by: dvu714 Hello all. This question for Larry, but if anyone can help that would be great. I will be starting college next semester. I want to become a applications/web developer and eventually become an analyst or consultant. At my local community college, they have an AAS degree for programming that specializes in c#. It has alot of good courses which include programming fundamentals, object oriented programming, xml, asp.net, database, etc. But the only thing is that it is not transferable to a university. My other option is to take the AA with the transfer option. I will be taking alot of the general stuff, but i have the option of chosing 20 units of electives(my choice). So i guess my question is should i go for the AAS degree or just take the normal AA and transfer? Would I be able to get a job with the AAS or even the AA? I would like to get a job after 2 years. TIA Posted by: raross I think you would be smart to do the AA and then finish up with a four year college degree. I think you would be able to get a job either way, just not the one you wanted to. You would have to work at entry level for 5 years or so and move your way up. With a 4 year college degree it would be easier for you. Posted by: dvu714 Raross, thank you for the reply. I would only be looking for an entry position and would like to work up from there. But it is getting that entry level position that worries me. So you are saying that with either the AA or the AAS it would be the same, when applying? And later on, the Bachelors would give more room for advancement. That was i what i was thinking too. Go for the AA, then try to get my foot through the door while earning a BA in MIS. My main concern was the part of getting my foot through the door. Im not to sure if there was a big difference between the AAS or AA. The councelor at my school just said the AAS would get me ready for an entry level position. But it seems people with a BA/BS straight out of school are just qualified for entry level programming jobs also. It seems like experience is king in the IT field. Posted by: raross [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dvu714 [/i] [B]Raross, thank you for the reply. I would only be looking for an entry position and would like to work up from there. But it is getting that entry level position that worries me. So you are saying that with either the AA or the AAS it would be the same, when applying? And later on, the Bachelors would give more room for advancement. That was i what i was thinking too. Go for the AA, then try to get my foot through the door while earning a BA in MIS. My main concern was the part of getting my foot through the door. Im not to sure if there was a big difference between the AAS or AA. The councelor at my school just said the AAS would get me ready for an entry level position. But it seems people with a BA/BS straight out of school are just qualified for entry level programming jobs also. It seems like experience is king in the IT field. [/B][/QUOTE] I believe either an AA or the AAS would be the same when applying. What I would do is just go for some job related certs while getting the AA. Then whenever you get your foot in the door try to go for a 4 year degree like you were saying. It seems like you understand the IT job market, most people dont have a realistic view. Good luck to you! Posted by: elitesoldier [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dvu714 [/i] [B]Raross, thank you for the reply. I would only be looking for an entry position and would like to work up from there. But it is getting that entry level position that worries me. So you are saying that with either the AA or the AAS it would be the same, when applying? And later on, the Bachelors would give more room for advancement. That was i what i was thinking too. Go for the AA, then try to get my foot through the door while earning a BA in MIS. My main concern was the part of getting my foot through the door. Im not to sure if there was a big difference between the AAS or AA. The councelor at my school just said the AAS would get me ready for an entry level position. But it seems people with a BA/BS straight out of school are just qualified for entry level programming jobs also. It seems like experience is king in the IT field. [/B][/QUOTE] Experience is only good when those computer skills are still being used in the field. This is the reason why you see all these "it professionals" who have been in the field for 30years and complaining that they can't find a job. They failed to keep updated with the technology. Posted by: dvu714 THanks guys! You guys are rock! Cant wait until i get into the field. Posted by: DaPunnisher [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elitesoldier [/i] [B]Experience is only good when those computer skills are still being used in the field. This is the reason why you see all these "it professionals" who have been in the field for 30years and complaining that they can't find a job. They failed to keep updated with the technology. [/B][/QUOTE] The IT field is like being in school all the time. Like elitesoldier says, if you don't keep up with the technology, you're toast! :eek: Posted by: raross Yeah but I dont find that hard, if you love your job you're more opt to learn as much as you can. :) Posted by: Tyler1989 It just isn't the computer job market the whole market center if you will is in shambles. Posted by: raross I disagree, I also study economics and the job market overall was in shambles during 2001-2003. The job market has been picking up recently, specially for health care, energy and finacials. The overall economy could not be better, specially investment wise. Now is the time to buy, since everythings so low from the down years of 2001-2003. There have been many speculations that the tech arena is picking up speed. Posted by: ciscoexpert IT exam service for you --------IT exam service for you !you can obtain the certification in home! We can test for you ,let you obtain IT certification as follows in home IT exam service Provide WIN2000 MCSE+MCDBA¡¢ MCSD¡¢MCSA; CCNA ¡¢CCDA ¡¢CCNP¡¢CCDP¡¢CCIP¡¢CCSP¡¢CCIE¡¢SCJP¡¢JAVA¡¢CIW¡¢O racle Special service-------- IT exam service for you, you can obtain the certification in home. To get more information,please visit our website: [url]http://www.ciscotimes.net/En/gunman.htm[/url] We'll offer you better service and good price if you take our IT exam service.I can be reached by the following means: MSN: [email]ciscoexpert@hotmail.com[/email] ICQ: 192085166 Website: [url]http://www.ciscotimes.net[/url] Posted by: bignavychef if you did testking, then you should have been fine Posted by: bignavychef certifications are important if you're trying to stand out above the rest... I'm sure you've heard it a million times over, but it's true that if you have applcant A and applicant B, and Appicant A has a certification and a degree, where B only has a degree, then Applicant A is probably gonna get the job... ([url]www.testking.com[/url]) Posted by: raross Depends on the degree also, masters or 4 year degree, or even higher education. There are so many factors and I would not rely on certifications to make you stand out from the rest. But it does help, specially in IT. Posted by: PennKen2009 Hi all, I'm new, and I'm currently in my second semester majoring in Information Science and Technology at Penn State. I'm currently taking a Databaseing class and a Networking class (both are root/required base classes), and I love the databasing. I am definately gonna take more databasing classes and hopefully someday get a job as a database admin or soemthing of the likes. Posted by: arkaine what computer field out there is currently in highest demand? Posted by: raross Software engineering and bioinformatics is probally the two careers in high demand. Software engineering you will only need a BS in computer science, but for bioinformatics you will need atleast a PhD in computer science or mathematics/statistics. Posted by: M4A1 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by raross [/i] [B]Depends on the degree also, masters or 4 year degree, or even higher education. There are so many factors and I would not rely on certifications to make you stand out from the rest. But it does help, specially in IT. [/B][/QUOTE] Exactly what I was going to say. Applicant A: BS in CE, GPA 2.3 with A+ Applicant B: BS in CE, GPA 3.8, research experience, internship Obviously, easy choice. Why? You decide... [QUOTE]There are so many factors and I would not rely on certifications to make you stand out from the rest.[/QUOTE] Posted by: thegiant12 It’s always a good thing to get your certification. There will be more opportunities job wise if you get your proper certifications. A good place to look for help if you need it is Test King Online. Google Test King and the website should show up. It helped a lot with understanding the exams to get my A+ and Network+ certification. Good look Larry... Posted by: Aspirin Go for biotechnology. Make a quantum golem with Godzilla-like powers. Program him to destroy all programmers accepting or working for overseas companies engaged in outsourcing away US jobs. Posted by: jaeusm US software development jobs are not being eliminated due to outsourcing. Posted by: Aspirin Well some of them certainly are. [url]http://cseserv.engr.scu.edu/StudentWebPages/sparthas/sparthas_FinalPaper.htm[/url] Nothing Godgolem can't deal with though. Posted by: jaeusm When outsourcing occurs, some jobs will invariably be lost. On the whole, however, software development jobs seem to be increasing. Then again, there seems to be a lot of conjecture. I posted the following a couple months ago. The job market for the class of 2006 is as good as it has been in the past three or four years, according to the National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE) [1]. NACE also reports the national average starting salary for graduating students majoring in computer science this spring to be $50,046 – behind only chemical, electrical, and mechanical engineering. Lakshmi Narayanan, CEO of Cognizant, says that the trend in outsourcing is nowhere near its peak [2]. However, he does not think outsourcing is a great threat to the U.S. Ultimately, for U.S. companies, “outsourcing develops a larger global market for [their] services”. Money magazine’s top ranked career in the United States is "software engineer" [3]. The magazine reports the average salary of a software engineer to be $80,427 and predicts that the field will grow by 46% in the next 10 years. There once was a fear that computers would take away the jobs of people. However, computers have been instrumental in creating many new jobs, and I do not think the trend will be reversed. [1] [url]http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/24/pf/..._2006/index.htm[/url] [2] [url]http://www.businessweek.com/technol...paign_id=search[/url] [3] [url]http://money.cnn.com/magazines/mone...op50/index.html[/url] Posted by: Aspirin Link 1 = 404 Page Not Found Link 2 = Technical Assistance / File Not Found Link 3 = 404 Page Not Found Posted by: jaeusm Sorry about that. I just copied and pasted from my older post. Links have been corrected below. [1] [url]http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/24/pf/college/class_of_2006/index.htm[/url] [2] [url]http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2006/tc20060217_160237.htm?campaign_id=search[/url] [3] [url]http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bestjobs/top50/index.html[/url] Posted by: raross There is a lot of outsourcing but we seem to be making more jobs for software engineers faster then they can be outsourced. Some jobs just cant be outsourced because of security and technology. Biotech is a hot field, it will only become hotter as time goes on. I got into bioinformatics research about a year ago and been loving it ever since. Only thing bad about biotech right now is since the field is so new, you need a PhD to be employed anywhere. But that will ease up, given some time. Posted by: Aspirin Thank you jaeusm. I read the articles in the context of your post. I see your points. And I sure hear you raross. If I could live life over again I would have been a doctor or a scientist specializing in biotechnology. Posted by: chanyeehon s Posted by: thebrantmeister I am interested in pursuing a career in the computer field. I am a senior in high school, but I have started my college by taking "Introduction to Programming and Logic". If I continue down this path, I will get an Associates Degree in Computer Programming (which apparently means nothing) and I can transfer after that as a junior to a four-year university to get a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science or Information Systems. What path would you guys recommend I take. Should I continue down the programming path or should I switch over to the CISCO Certifications (which I hear will get you a job quicker)? What certifications (A+, Network+, etc.) should I try to get along the way? Posted by: PnkFloyd27 I too am interested in pursuing a career in the computer field. I am a junior in High School and want to go to a community college for one year and then transfer to a normal 4 year college. I want to learn computer programming (C++ and maybe Perl) and then after or during college I would like to possibly do some work for linux or GNOME or some kind of freeware/open source project to gain experience (I will obviously have a job doing something else during that.. like working at curcuit city or something). When I feel that I need to get a real job I will get a job working for some company making programs. I feel like that is a very general idea of what I am going to possibly be doing... but there you go. I noticed that somebody posted something about not being able to get a job because they didn't have enough experience, working for an open source/freeware company like linux would probably be the best way to gain experience and have something to show on your resume. Posted by: Crunkadelic What kind of job could I get with a certificate in Computer Science? Posted by: PnkFloyd27 Depends I suppose. Would you be programming? If so then you could get a job working for a software company or an OS company, or you could program computer games, or console games (go with pc). Or you could program things for like devices like iPod's or something. There is a lot you can do, look it up on google. Posted by: Quantum Bit [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PnkFloyd27 [/i] [B]Depends I suppose. Would you be programming? If so then you could get a job working for a software company or an OS company, or you could program computer games, or console games (go with pc). Or you could program things for like devices like iPod's or something. There is a lot you can do, look it up on google. [/B][/QUOTE] NOT with a computer science certificate.. Maybe with a computer science degree :) Posted by: Crunkadelic Okay, Im interested in CCNA Certification. How would I go about earning it? Posted by: M4A1 Don't ONLY get your AA. Go for a FOUR YEAR degree. Nowadays, a 4 year degree is JUST TO ENTER the playing field. Most employers (same with Electrical/Computer Engineering) will prefer a student with a Masters degree. Don't shoot for the low stuff, be ambitious, get that four year degree. You will have a lot more to learn and more respect. I'm not saying you won't be respected in PC repair or basic IT admin, but don't underestimate the power of a 4 year degree or a masters. You will have much more flexibility, careerwise. Also, if you get the 4 year / masters, certifications almost mean nothing. Sure, it might help, but it won't be the deciding factor. In short, GET A 4 YEAR DEGREE / MASTERS. How do you know you wont like computer engineering? You don't know that yet, you're only in HS. Don't base your assumptions on your AP Computer Science course. You don't even touch the tip of the iceberg. Posted by: M4A1 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thegiant12 [/i] [B]It�s always a good thing to get your certification. There will be more opportunities job wise if you get your proper certifications. A good place to look for help if you need it is Test King Online. Google Test King and the website should show up. It helped a lot with understanding the exams to get my A+ and Network+ certification. Good look Larry... [/B][/QUOTE] I don't always agree. What would is an A+ certification if you're designing a microprocessor? or a graphics card? It has no substantial benefit. I haven't used anything I have my A+ in for circuit design, in any project. If you plan on doing PC repair, things of that sort, then sure the certifications will help. But if you're in engineering, A+ is next to nothing. vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2003, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. PPC Management vB Easy Archive Final - Created by Xenon |