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Search Tech-Forums - link takes you to our Forum's search page. Note: The following is only a text archive! To view the actual forum discussion, please visit our website at http://www.tech-forums.net Pages:1 Frequency Range(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)Posted by: K M A N Just a very quick question that i saw on Crysalis's post on another website that he linked me to, first of all thanks for that it cleared a few things up. But one thing you said that ''The human hearing range is technically 20hz-20,000hz (or 20khz)'', Thats perfectly true, but what i am asking is why do speakers manufacturers have speakers which far succeed these specifications, surely theres no point if you wouldnt be able to here frequencies above and below the usual hering range. For example the headphones i want have a frequency response from 5hz to 35,000 hz, This is far beond the hearing range supposedly, and some manufactures make some higher frequencies than this, so simply but. Whats the point ? Sorry, but just to save time i'll keep it in this thread. The higher the Sensitivity the louder more effective it uses its power equaling higher volumes right ?, well how do i know how loud my headphones will be, because i cant find anything to do with power except ''Input Power 500 milliwatts'' and the sensitivity 102dB. Thanks Posted by: Crysalis Frequency response question: Well, thats a great question. Lets take my headphones for example. The frequency range on them is 5hz-18khz. Now, since we can't hear below 20, you ask why they make it like that. Two reasons. 1. If you play a 30-40hz tone through a sub, you're gonna feel it. Thats where chest thumping kick drums come and booming bass shake your pants off. If 20-40hz shakes you, imagine what a speaker does when its going even slower. It starts to resemble an earthquake (which are constantly happening, just different magnitudes and at frequencies we can't hear). Bottom line: They do that so you can feel it. 2. If you look at a frequency response chart, you'll see something like this: [img]http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/images/mic-frequency-response1.gif[/img] Now, you'll notice that this device can reproduce frequencies from 40hz-15khz. So, taking your question, lets change that 40hz to 5hz. Notice that it curves down at the beginning. That means it doesn't produce those as well. So, the lower you can get a device, the better it will perform at the others. A speaker may be able to handle 5hz, but that doesn't mean it can handle it well. But, that same speaker would probably handle 20hz a lot better than a speaker with a 20hz-18khz response. The same goes for high frequencies (except for feeling them). The higher it can get, the better it will produce the frequencies that we CAN hear. It also has an effect on the ones we can hear, but that gets into harmonic distortions and acoustics which is all insane calculations. Headphone sensitivity: I'm not sure of how to calculate that, but its possible. If your headphones are rated at 102db SNR, then that means it only needs one watt of power to produce a max of 102db. So, if it can handle at most 500 milliwatts, then you can somehow figure it out. To put it in lamens terms, the higher that number, the louder its gonna get. EricB would be a better guy to talk to in terms of sensitivity as he is a speaker specialist. Posted by: K M A N Thanks crysalis, that was very helpfull :). I must admit i have occasionaly noticed that when listening to some fort minor songs on my Z5500's Woofer, i occasionally feel it before i here it :). I hope that 500Mw/102Db SNR with 64 ohms can be loud enough for me, i like LOUD. I listen to my Z5500's at about 2/3 Volume at most, which is LOUD, on the odd ocasion i turn it up to 3/4 !, but tahst after ive selltaped everything to the walls :p. Could i personal message this to EriB, Or am is he on the forums often and am likely to get a response from him anyway ? Posted by: 003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Crysalis [/i] [B]The higher it can get, the better it will produce the frequencies that we CAN hear. [/B][/QUOTE] That is only true if the manufacturer is not using an insane unlisted tolerance for the FR measurement, like +/- 10dB. And unfortunately most manufactures, even the reputable higher end ones seem to exaggerate the FR spec as much as legally possible (some cases probably illegally). I can also think of one example where that is not true at all, the AKG K1000, which I used to own. It has a FR of 35Hz to 25KHz. While the 25KHz might seem low, the highs were one of the things it reproduced the best. The bass, while rolled off at the bottom end, was very tight with fast impact for what it did have. It was a VERY good headphone but it was very open, leaked a lot of sound, and you could only use it in an upright position, not the mention the requirement of a very expensive speaker amp to drive it, all of these contributed to me selling it. But I do not deny, it had the flattest FR I have ever heard. Ruler flat from about 45Hz to 20KHz. But in all honesty I would not judge a product on the FR because of how much it is exaggerated. Posted by: K M A N EricB, I see you browsing this forum, and i need your help so here it goes. How can i tell how loud my headphone will be, there 500 milliwatt imput, 102dm sensitivity, and 64ohms. And the Audio-Technica A700's incase thats relevent. Thanks Posted by: Crysalis 003 is right... responses are exaggerated ESPECIALLY with consumer grade products. Pro-sumer and professional grade aren't SO exaggerated, but it still happens. Posted by: K M A N So what shoud i look for now, it seems i cant even trust the specs of the FR from a trsusted manufacturer. So what am i supposed to beleive now ? Posted by: 003 Ok, all you need to know is that if you should want, that will be able to get pretty darn loud. Loud enough to damage your hearing in a very short time. Loud as in, painfully loud. The loudest you should listen to for any extended period of time is 85db, and as you go up, as in 1-2db increases, the maximum safe time RAPIDLY decreases. The A700s will easily hit 85fb and up but it would not be wise at all to listen at such loud volumes. As for FR, it doesn't really matter that much. As long as, say, 25hz through 18khz can be produced decently you are fine. FR is largely a meaningless spec except for studio monitoring and mastering. Posted by: K M A N Ok PAINFULLY loud sound good, i bet i 'sound' realy n00bish asking how loud it is, but to me its important, theres nothing like some loud music when your in a bad mood, which is a a regular reoccurance for me :), Besides these headphones would be crackling and everything at the volume surely ?... there not that good, are they ?, As long as they dont start to distort before they get comfortably loud, thats fine. :). My Z5500's failed me yesterday because i turned them up to Boost 2 , which was incredibly scary, because the sub nearly bottomed out. Which to be fair is expected :), as i wa sonly on onboard audio. And boost mode is ludicrous anyway. Posted by: Crysalis or you just go to 140db SPL and make lots of blood come out your ears :p +1 Stick with a good long FR and you should be fine. Yes, they are exaggerated, but its nothing to completely ignore. If its down to two products, same price, but slight different FR, then it comes down to which sounds best to you. Posted by: K M A N lol Posted by: EricB there a problem with your headphones specs. 500 milliwatt is half a watt. so you spl should be 96 db. but the 64 ohms throw that off the reference for sensitivity is getting fed pink noise at 1 meter (speaker placement)/1 watt into 8 ohms. you would have to feed it 2.83 volts to get that sensitivity number. you change any of these numbers you have to change everything. for instance if you have a 4 ohm speaker you have to feed it 2 volts of pink noise to keep it equal at the same distance. the problem is manufactures won't change the other numbers if any of the above are different so this spec is alway iffy frequency response has been discuss already. you want to have at the very least, tolerances of maybe +/-3db or less from 20-20000 hz . some companies will post that it's spec is 20-20000 hz with no tolerances, but but 20 hz might be 64 db down and 20,000 hz might be up 8 db. this wouldn't sound very good me? I personally would rather hear a 33 hz note by a speaker that can go down to 5hz, than from one that could go down 30 hz. and anybody that has ribbon tweeters can tell you that having speaker that can go flat out to 50,000 hz will alway sound better playing a 10k note than a regular dome tweeter as most of their responses will fall at this point. even more will peak back up at 18,000 because of voice coil inductance (this can be fixed with a zobel network) and that isn't flat response Posted by: K M A N So your telling me them specs cant match up technically. hmmm. So now i dont no wether there good or not. Do you know out of personal preference wether these are good headphones despite the 'false' specifications ? As long as there loudish and sound good, {well very good} considering there price, i'll be happy. Posted by: EricB I personally like stax headphones interesting reading [url]http://www.headwize.com/articles/hguide_art.htm[/url] Posted by: 003 KMAN -- do not worry about the Audio-Technica headphones. I used to own them with an X-fi. Almost all headphones can get 10 times louder then you will ever be able to listen. Stax headphones are very good but somehow I don't quite think that is what he is looking for. Posted by: Crysalis +2 Just get the things KMAN... you're starting to get in WAY over your head. Some of the stuff eric talked about I had to think about for a minute or two. They will be plenty loud for you. Audio Technica is a well known brand name and the specs are great. Posted by: K M A N Yes it did get Very confusing. Like seriously confusing. But !. I Know Senns have a good rep, and i know A-T are of an equal quality from what ive herd, and i know there loud enough. and i know any X-Fi will be better than my SB Live card. So on that basis... I just need to sav eup 200 odd pounds :p. vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2003, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. PPC Management vB Easy Archive Final - Created by Xenon |