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Search Tech-Forums - link takes you to our Forum's search page. Note: The following is only a text archive! To view the actual forum discussion, please visit our website at http://www.tech-forums.net Pages:1 How to remove the DRM from iTunes music(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)Posted by: Warez Monster Itunes is the most successful music store in the world, if you do not count stores that have their office in Russia. One of the biggest disadvantages if iTunes is that the music that you purchase has DRM protection build into them. This protection makes it impossible to play those files on other mp3 players than the ipod for instance. This turns out really bad if you want to buy a new mp3 player which is not manufactured by Apple. So, where is the alternative to deleting the files because they are basically useless to you ? You could try some programs that rip the DRM out of the music files to be able to transfer and use the music on your new mp3 player. Please note that using those programs might be illegal in the country where you are living, make sure you know what you are doing before downloading and using them. Not that someone would be able to find out.. The world needs more disclaimers like this, don’t you think ? The first program that is able to remove the DRM is QTFairUse. It can be downloaded from Rapidshare, the link was published on the forum thread that I linked to. The second tool is myFairTunes which does the same and converts the mp4 file to mp3 as well. I do not think that it makes much of a difference which program you will be using. I suggest you download one and if it does everything the way you want it you stick with that. I don’t need them at all because I do not buy music, videos or other media in stores that add DRM to the files or demand a ridiculous amount of money for the media. [url]http://hymn-project.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=9565#9565[/url] Posted by: TMT Why would you want to use any of these programs, which are strictly against the law, when you can simply burn your DRM-contained audio/video to audio/VCD discs, and then rip them back in to your computer? This is the current legal loop-hole of stripping your media content of its DRM. It remains legal, because you are licensed to burn a limited number of copies of your purchased media. However, don't quote me on this. I have been known to get things wrong once in a while. TMT. Posted by: The General [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TMT [/i] [B]Why would you want to use any of these programs, which are strictly against the law, when you can simply burn your DRM-contained audio/video to audio/VCD discs, and then rip them back in to your computer? This is the current legal loop-hole of stripping your media content of its DRM. It remains legal, because you are licensed to burn a limited number of copies of your purchased media. However, don't quote me on this. I have been known to get things wrong once in a while. TMT. [/B][/QUOTE] There is nothing illegal about removing DRM from music. There IS something illegal about sharing your de-DRM'd music over P2P networks or with other people who haven't paid money. There is no reason why I sound go through the trouble of burning CDs and throwing them away after I rip them, when I can just de-DRM them with a program. Then again, there is no reason anyone should have to pay money for something that costs $0 to reproduce. I'll continue "stealing" all of my music, thank you. ;) Posted by: moisiss [QUOTE][i]Then again, there is no reason anyone should have to pay money for something that costs $0 to reproduce. I'll continue "stealing" all of my music, thank you. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]\ What about the 25-150 thousand dollars that the band whose music you just ripped owes to the label for recording the music in the first place? Surely they deserve something.... at least enough to continue to make the music you enjoy. I would agree that the price on downloaded music should be reduced (no packaging, physical copys, etc. to spend money on) but it costs a lot more than $0 to produce an album, even when you subtract the cost of making physical copies of everything. Posted by: The General [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]\ What about the 25-150 thousand dollars that the band whose music you just ripped owes to the label for recording the music in the first place? Surely they deserve something.... at least enough to continue to make the music you enjoy. I would agree that the price on downloaded music should be reduced (no packaging, physical copys, etc. to spend money on) but it costs a lot more than $0 to produce an album, even when you subtract the cost of making physical copies of everything. [/B][/QUOTE] Again, it costs $0 to reproduce. You're talking about the production costs, but those are all covered with concert revenue and CDs. Posted by: moisiss If you are saying that you should be able to have as many copies as you need, in whatever formatt, of a song or album after you buy one copy, I totally agree with you. But if you are just downloading everything (I.E. never paying for it in any way, shape, or form) and saying that it is not costing anyone anything, then I don't agree with you. Something like 95%+ of albums never make back the money that was spent on them... and this was before people started downloading. And as far as concert revenue paying for albums... if your a band/artist, you better hope you don't have a deal like that, because then you wouldn't make enough to live much less tour and make more music. The artists don't recieve 1 cent from CD sales until all of the money initially invested from the record company is completely recouped. If you download/copy an album (for free), how often do you go buy a hard copy of that same album? So yes, you are correct in saying that it does not cost anything to reproduce the digital data... but if you are not buying a CD (hard copy or digital copy that you download) because you just downloaded a free copy, how does the record company/artist get their money back? Or make enough to keep putting out new music? Posted by: The General [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]If you are saying that you should be able to have as many copies as you need, in whatever formatt, of a song or album after you buy one copy, I totally agree with you.[/B][/QUOTE] Good, at least I know you are rational. But I'd prefer not buying the first one. If they still put albums out on vinyl, I'd be all over them. I'd probably never even download music again if music was still being released on vinyl. Of course, that's aside from the fact that all good music is either available live at your local venue, or on vinyl already. It's just a matter of finding it. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]But if you are just downloading everything (I.E. never paying for it in any way, shape, or form) and saying that it is not costing anyone anything, then I don't agree with you.[/B][/QUOTE] Are you saying that MP3's cost more than $0 to duplicate? Because if so, then you're lying. It costs $0 to duplicate an MP3. CD's and vinyl are different, instead of a set of 1's and 0's arranged in the right order, you actually get a piece of physical material which costs [i]something[/i] to reproduce. One thing you seem to be missing is that bands make money in other ways than selling music. People pay for tickets to go to concerts (I am one of them) ... I don't think people should get free concerts, that's just absurd. The cost of a large scale concert is more than the cost of recording an album. Recording an album only costs time, really. If you think it costs more than $10,000 then you are insane. That money is made back at the first concert. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]Something like 95%+ of albums never make back the money that was spent on them... and this was before people started downloading. [/B][/QUOTE] Can you provide a link for that statistic? I really doubt it's accurate. I know garage bands who spend thousands of dollars on recording albums and make that money back playing at small bars with a $5 cover charge. You have got to be insane or something if you think that these bands are losing money or not making enough money because of people download or copying tapes, etc. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]And as far as concert revenue paying for albums... if your a band/artist, you better hope you don't have a deal like that, because then you wouldn't make enough to live much less tour and make more music.[/B][/QUOTE] You have got to be insane if you think that concert revenue is nothing to scoff at. Think about it, with a $10,000 recording debt, and 10,000 people at the concert, that $10,000 debt turns into $250,000 ($25/ticket)... if you think a concert like that costs any more than $35,000 then you are just insane. Stuff just doesn't cost that much. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]The artists don't recieve 1 cent from CD sales until all of the money initially invested from the record company is completely recouped.[/B][/QUOTE] Well, then they should sign with major record labels then. I know some freaking local bands where all they do is play in bars and they make more money that I ever will. The bar gets business because of the band, the bar charges $5 cover charges, and pay the band for getting them that extra business. They make like $1,500 a night divided by 4 people. That's a lot of money. They own their own equipment and do everything themselves. None of the bands that are signed with major record labels make any good music anyway. The entire market is just that - a market. The only good musicians are signed with independent record labels or aren't signed with a record label at all and play in bars and at your local venue. All of which have their music available for download on their websites. Want a copy of their music? Ask them for a CD-R. Want a live DVD of them playing? Go tape it with your video camera and record it on a DVD. They may want a copy. It's a mutual effort. It's fun. It has nothing to do with filling arena rock shows with hundreds of thousands of people. It has nothing to do with filling the isles at Best Buy with your album and advertising with your music videos on MTV and VH1. It's about music. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]If you download/copy an album (for free), how often do you go buy a hard copy of that same album?[/B][/QUOTE] Never, because they don't need my money. If they want money, they can come to my city for a show and I'll buy tickets. They can screw off if they don't play shows. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]So yes, you are correct in saying that it does not cost anything to reproduce the digital data... but if you are not buying a CD (hard copy or digital copy that you download) because you just downloaded a free copy, how does the record company/artist get their money back?[/B][/QUOTE] I've said it before and I'll say it again - concert revenue. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]Or make enough to keep putting out new music? [/B][/QUOTE] Making music requires a creative mind, not money. Posted by: moisiss Ah yes.... I see what the problem is now.... you are completely ignorant of how the music industry works. It's ok though... most people are. I'll post a more detailed counter-argument when I get home from work... I don't have the time to get all of the info together right now. But this is where the main problem lies... people just have no idea how much it costs to make the music that they so love to listen to... so they just download it all and think that no one is losing out. Posted by: The General [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]Ah yes.... I see what the problem is now.... you are completely ignorant of how the music industry works. It's ok though... most people are.[/B][/QUOTE] I kill you with facts, so you insult me. Ultimately, I win. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]I'll post a more detailed counter-argument when I get home from work... I don't have the time to get all of the info together right now.[/B][/QUOTE] Why don't you just wait until you have something to say before posting? Your post is inane. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]But this is where the main problem lies... people just have no idea how much it costs to make the music that they so love to listen to... so they just download it all and think that no one is losing out. [/B][/QUOTE] Do you have any idea how little time it takes to record an album? It takes about a week, then another week of post processing. It's not like a movie ... Writing music costs $0. Posted by: moisiss That wasn't meant as an insult... it was a simple observation. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant of things... you should just be aware that you are ignorant. Your "facts" are completely incorrect.... hence the "you are ignorant about the music industry" comment. Just the fact that you think it takes no longer than 2 weeks and $10,000 dollars to record an album shows how little you know. This may be true for some "garage bands"... but for major artists on major labels it is not uncommon for bands to spend up to a year in the studio... racking up well over $10,000 in expenses. My information comes from personal experience and the books that I have read about the music industry... mainly this one... [url]http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0743246373/ref=s9_asin_title_1/103-7893510-7951855[/url] but I will have to wait until I get home to post quotes, page numbers, etc. because I didn't bring my copy to work with me. Writing music takes time. Time = money. Therefore, Writing music takes money. Posted by: The General [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]That wasn't meant as an insult... it was a simple observation. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant of things... you should just be aware that you are ignorant.[/B][/QUOTE] Don't even try to say that wasn't an insult. You ran out of stuff to argue with, because I shot you down with facts. You were left with nothing left to say other than the obligatory mis-used "you're ignorant" insult which still fails to insult me. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]Your "facts" are completely incorrect.... hence the "you are ignorant about the music industry" comment.[/B][/QUOTE] My " "facts" " are not incorrect, you are blinded with idiocy. (See, I can do it too.) [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]Just the fact that you think it takes no longer than 2 weeks and $10,000 dollars to record an album shows how little you know.[/B][/QUOTE] I recorded my bands album in 2 weeks and $500 in microphones. All the software was free. If you want to download it for free, I will send you a link as I'm more about making music and not making money off of it. ;) [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]This may be true for some "garage bands"... but for major artists on major labels it is not uncommon for bands to spend up to a year in the studio... racking up well over $10,000 in expenses.[/B][/QUOTE] A year in the studio and their music [i]STILL[/i] sucks. Maybe if they could actually perform, instead of having to adjust pitch and speed phase for their lip synced vocals to actually sound like the music writer who isn't the singer intended for it to sound like. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]My information comes from personal experience and the books that I have read about the music industry... mainly this one... [url]http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0743246373/ref=s9_asin_title_1/103-7893510-7951855[/url] but I will have to wait until I get home to post quotes, page numbers, etc. because I didn't bring my copy to work with me.[/B][/QUOTE] Cool, your information comes from a book some crazy-lady like you wrote as a brain washing tool to get people to spend $1 per song on iTunes. AWESOME. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]Writing music takes time. Time = money. Therefore, Writing music takes money. [/B][/QUOTE] Wow, way to misinterpret "time=money" ... time=money when you are working, you make money with time. So to say that it takes money to use time is a completely backwards interpretation of that saying. Posted by: moisiss No, I didn't run out of arguments.... I just don't have the time to debunk all of your "facts" right now because I'm at work. I would love to hear your music.... And if you've found a way to produce an album in 2 weeks for $500 that can come close to competing with a major label release.... you should start a label!! By the way, what did you play on that album.... all your instruments that cost $0? Oh yeah, and what did you record it on... a computer that cost $0? And your 2 weeks of time.... that's worth $0 to you? You should have more self value than that. Post a link to the free music editing software.... Im' sure it is up to par with pro tools HD. And as to another of your "facts".... Donald S. Passman is a MAN not a "crazy-lady".... "Donald Passman is a Phi Beta Kappa graduate of the University of Texas and a *** laude graduate of Harvard Law School. He lives in Los Angeles with his wife and four children, and practices law with the firm of Gang, Tyre, Ramer & Brown. He has specialized intensively in the music business for more than twenty years. His clients include major entertainment publishers, record companies, songwriters, industry executives, film companies, managers, producers, and other participants in the music industry." Posted by: The General [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]No, I didn't run out of arguments.... I just don't have the time to debunk all of your "facts" right now because I'm at work. I would love to hear your music.... And if you've found a way to produce an album in 2 weeks for $500 that can come close to competing with a major label release.... you should start a label!![/B][/QUOTE] You can find our album in this thread: [url]http://tech-forums.net/showthread.php?threadid=116993&highlight=ardour[/url] EDIT: I guess it's not on the server anymore, I'll upload it again and post back later. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]By the way, what did you play on that album....[/B][/QUOTE] Guitar [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]all your instruments that cost $0? [/B][/QUOTE] I had them anyway, otherwise I wouldn't have been a musician recording an album. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]Oh yeah, and what did you record it on... a computer that cost $0?[/B][/QUOTE] No, the computer that I had anyway. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]And your 2 weeks of time.... that's worth $0 to you?[/B][/QUOTE] We did it on our spare time, after work, etc. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]You should have more self value than that.[/B][/QUOTE] What? I rock, haven't I told you? [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]Post a link to the free music editing software.... Im' sure it is up to par with pro tools HD.[/B][/QUOTE] [url]http://ardour.org/[/url] [url]http://debian.org/[/url] [url]http://audacity.sf.net/[/url] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moisiss [/i] [B]Blah blah blah[/B][/QUOTE] Cool. Posted by: bobojuice Oh man this thread is freaking hilarious. Time for my 2 cents. Although i agree that producing an album might cost more than what the general is saying, i also have to say that artists need to be aware of what kind of situation they're getting into when they sign a record contract. Alot of people just get so excited and sign on the dotted line without reading any of the fine print. For those people i feel no remorse. I also agree that if an artist really wants to make some money he should tour and sell merch at his shows. The only time i ever buy cds is at a show/venue. That way im sure 100% of the money goes to the artist, not some fat cat getting rich while sitting on his ***. I will never stop stealing music. The recording industry needs to learn how to change and adapt, if not, they will fail. I personally dont care, seeing how corrupt and retarded the industry is. I would much rather support an artist than a record industry suit. Posted by: The General Okay here it is: [url]http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=B92C2CEA270347C1[/url] Posted by: moisiss I'll check it out as soon as I get home General. Stupid work network restrictions! Posted by: moisiss bobojuice: The only way an artist gets 100% of the money from a CD sale is if they put up all of the money up front to record the CD... I.E. they have no label or they own their own label. Otherwise, they get a percentage (after the initial investment has been fully recouped by the label or investor of course) no matter where you buy it. Posted by: moisiss So I listened to the first 5 songs off of the link you posted. I think it sounds really good. Do I think it sounds as good a Major Label release... I'm sorry, but no. That is saying nothing about the musicality or content of the song.... like I said earlier, I like it. What I [i]am[/i] talking about is the sound of the recording itself. It sounds like a good demo to me, but not comparable to a Major Label release. Maybe everything doesn't need to be held up to that standard... it's a small amount of difference, but to me it does exist. In reviewing the thread, I thought I had made myself clear in that I am talking about artists with Major Label deals... maybe I was not as clear as I thought though. Here are a couple of links talking about how many bands recoup their initial advance: From the definition of Recoupment offered by About: musicians exchange... [url]http://musicians.about.com/library/glossary/R/bldef-recoupment.htm[/url] notably this, "Even in major label deals, the costs of album production and management rapidly consume the advance, often leaving the artist with little extra to spend. If album sales fail to earn back the money, the artist is often dropped from the label and forgotten. Fewer than 10% of signed artists recoup their advance and become financially successful." And from the Wall Street Journal.... [url]http://blog.mattgoyer.com/stories/2002/02/21/ popSingerFailsToStrikeAChordDespiteTheMillionsSpen tByMCA.html[/url] notably this, "Of the thousands of albums released in the U.S. each year by the five major record companies, fewer than 5% become profitable, music executives say." from the lower link. but that figure is from record executives.... can't trust them, so additionally from the Wall Street journal, "As a result, industry executives estimate that major-label releases must on average sell about 500,000 copies just to break even. Last year, of the 6,455 new albums distributed in the U.S. by major labels, only 112 have sold at least that many, according to SoundScan, which monitors music sales. Overall music sales were down 5% last year -- the steepest decline in a decade." So about 1.7% recouped the initial investment. I would doubt if it gets much better for Indie labels.... Also in the Wall Street Journal article is a relative total of how much a typical first album costs "The total tab, including studio time, musicians' salaries, producers' fees and Ms. Hennessy's living expenses, was about $350,000 -- typical for a first pop record, MCA says." So no, I am not "insane" to think that it can cost well over $10,000 to record an album. You can go out and spend a few thousand dollars (or less) on an album... but there are things that you cannot reproduce on a cheap budget.... namely experience and equipment. Granted, this is (and has been) changing drastically since the cost of recording gear has dropped so there are a lot more people doing the home studio thing (including myself). But do I believe that I can record, mix, and master an album (from a technical aspect) as well as or better than engineers or producers who have been doing it everyday for years and that have access to equipment I can't afford?... no. I agree that there are a lot of other way for musicians to make money... but that also costs more money, but you make it sound like it would be easy to get 10,000 people to pay $25 dollars a head to see a band. How much money has to go into promoting that band before they will see anything close to those numbers? How much do the promoters take? How much does it cost everyone to get down the road? How much for the buses, a place to stay, gas, food? How much to hire to crew to work the show? For an independent artist trying to make it work without support... it's even more difficult. Most of the people that I know who are signed to independent labels say that they basically break even at the end of a tour. Your friends who make $1,500 a night playing, how often are they able to get 300 people (at $5 a head) to show up? Once, twice a month? Sure they are making about $375 a night... that would be great if it was like 3-4 times a week around town... but it is probably more like 2 times a month at the most.... unless they go out on the road... which costs more money. The point of all of this... the broad picture if you will... is that it is very difficult for musicians to make a living and regardless of how you feel about labels, or the "biz" or what ever. You should support any and all artists that you want to see stick around... and that means paying for the music that they have put so much on the line to make. Posted by: The General I didn't feel like reading all that. I don't care about major record labels, or their bands. So they can go out of business for all I care. There, that should kill anything you had to say. vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2003, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. PPC Management vB Easy Archive Final - Created by Xenon |