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Search Tech-Forums - link takes you to our Forum's search page. Note: The following is only a text archive! To view the actual forum discussion, please visit our website at http://www.tech-forums.net Pages:1 How Powerful will PS3 be ?(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)Posted by: NvidiaDude How powerful will the PS3 be? "On paper, the PS3 is 2x more powerful than the Xbox 360 and 15x more powerful than the Nintendo Revolution is predicted to be. It has a processing capacity of 2.18 TFLOPS, which is put into context when you realise that some of the fastest computers in existence can only do 36 Terraflops. It is said to be 35x more powerful than the PlayStation 2 is. At E3 2006, Sony showed off a large number of playable games. Whilst they all looked impressive, many who were present could not see a big difference in terms of visuals between the PS3 and Xbox 360. However, Gran Turismo HD far surpassed anything seen before, as it was demonstrated in 1080p at 60 frames per second" Yeh 15 times more powerful than Wii... my [snipped] Posted by: aaronkupen Thing is, that more power is with all the Processor SPE's turned on, which will not be the case for PS3. Last TIme I heard, the Ps3 will only have 5 active ones, which will cut down on the performance. Also, you will not notice a difference in games until a couple years from now, once develoeprs get more comfortable with the PS3 architecture. Until then, 360 and PS3 will pretty much be the same. I'm sure Killians will reply to this soon, he can give you a much more detailed response as to why the PS3 isn't as powerful "as it seems". Posted by: WeGotSnakes Will the bluray make THAT much of a difference in the PS3's gaming? I think it's just a gimmick that is too expensive to catch on to be the norm in gaming. Posted by: killians45 You guessed right aaronkupen ;) Anyhow, here's my take on the PS3, and this is standard economics and some advanced tech. Anyhow, whenever a new console is made, especially one with radical new architecture, it takes the community of programmers at least a year, maybe two since the architecture is so radically different to fully optimize its hardware and special instruction sets. New ways of compiling code, easier workarounds to eke out performance boosts, thus shortening code, it takes a long time. As aaron stated, you haven't seen the full potential of the new consoles. PS3 will begin to look better, as will the 360 as coders developement tools become more robust. The best comparison I can think of is on the old NES. How the games were a normal affair as far as graphics, then one day Donkey Kong Country came out setting a new graphical standard. How did they suddenly get such better graphics? New developement tools and vast experience, that's how. Now, as far as the SPE's, they are not exactly as they seem. Yes, when it comes to working out physics engines, AI, etc they will be monsters. However, in the long run they are not ideal for game creation. The main reason for this is due to lack of branch prediction. The cell is not like a normal processor, it is not multipurpose. The PS3 has only ONE multipurpose processor to the 360's three multipurpose processors. The SPE's are built, essentialy to run certain types of code at very high speeds. Thats where the FP calculations come in, good in some cases, not so good in others. I have also learned the the PPE has a lower IPC (instructions per cycle) then a standard desktop, however it has a higher clock speed. How this will effect the final outcome is anyones guess. Here is some info on the Cell and 360 for comparison. It is lengthy reading, so hope you have some time: Xbox360: [url]http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-1.ars[/url] [url]http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars[/url] PS3/actually just cell info so not all info is exact because the PS3 is a little bit different [url]http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-1.ars[/url] [url]http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/cell-2.ars[/url] hands on article on the PS3 [url]http://games.kikizo.com/news/200602/065_p1.asp[/url] Now, as far as the bluray, don't bet on it making things better. It costs money to write games. Developer time, printing, deadlines (you have to get these games shipped fast, otherwise you will release a game whose game engine is now out dated). So, time constraints and economics come into play when it comes to all that extra space on these disks. Only thing that would be feasible (FOR NOW) would be to use the extra room for extra content, movies, whatever. Game enhancements though? Don't bet on it. Cost way to much and would take far to much time to do it, and like I said. They have time restraints to worry about, and the cost of production would be sky high. Think $60 to $70 is to much for a game? The price would be much more. Now, one way they could use it is to speed things up by keeping files uncompressed, but again you are not looking at gameplay and graphics updates. So, nope. Thats why I think they should of ditched bluray and gone with a cheaper alternative that still afforded more space, and brought the price of the PS3 down, however sony has their new format baby that they want to take over our living rooms and they'll go through any means they can to achieve this, even if it means paying more for a game console. Posted by: aaronkupen Again killians, that was a very amazing post. I don't even try to mention everything I know about these things cause there is just no reason with you around :-). Posted by: killians45 lol, thanks ;) Unfortunately there is a lack of info on the PS3 but from all that I've read, it doesn't deliver on it's promises. It's a great concept, however I would of prefered them to forgo the bluray and added in another more multipurpose cores. Posted by: aaronkupen Yah, I mean I kind of agree there. I just constantly seem to be defending it because of this huge outcry and hatred against Sony the past couple years. But for me, I really don't care what is in it, it could have a pentium 4 processor with a cd rom. If the games are there, and I tend to like the games on playstation better based off the past two generations, then I will play it regardless of price or hardware. I don't see the sense in buying a system that is 100-200 dollars cheaper to save some money if I don't like the games that much. That is pretty much the reason why I support Playstation 3... as of now. You are right though, it doesn't deliver on it's promises performance wise and "price" wise. Also, the online system will most likely be flawed based off of what is known so far. This is sort of to be expected though, Sony does tend to not fully deliver on most things they say. Posted by: killians45 Don't get me wrong, I prefer my xbox to sony however, it doesn't mean I don't want one. I would LOVE to get ahold of a PS3, however finances for me right now just doesn't permit it. The next thing I'm gonna get is a Wii, so 360 and a Wii but thats because I have a 5 month old and figured by the time they are in good supply and alot of games are out, it will be time for me to initiate my young un into the world of console and computer gaming. Oh, and I do have to say one thing. Gears of War for the win! Holy crap, I'm am ABSOLUTELY STUNNED! Posted by: TheOrangeDude if you believe a single thing sony said. you are in seriouse trouble. cause all sony do is lying. back ps2 days they claim that ps2 this and that but how ever when it comes out it really just a peice crap like xbox. they cant really compare to pc at all. specially now that 8800gtx is out pc will over run those console like no tomorrow. Posted by: aaronkupen So you base whether or not PC's are better than consoles just on the graphics? Posted by: killians45 Wow, you must of really done alot of research on that one Orangedude. I love the reference links you provided! Let me guess, you read a few lines of the links I provided, found yourself over your head with how the architectures worked, and provided this amazingly revealing and well though out response. Bravo, never have I seen such a fluid and well thought out response! Which column is it that you write for? Oh, I'm sorry, let me write this in a style more recognizable by you. wHich column. Write for do you? Oh, and the bench marks that you have provided? Absolutely stunning! Sigh... why, oh WHY can't people back up their claims and make an intelligent statement! Posted by: aaronkupen Ouch, that even hurt my feelings killians and it wasn't even about me! Posted by: killians45 Heheheh... I love sarcasm ;) Posted by: TheOrangeDude I dont understand why r u guys soo freaking like to argu about the soul call next gen of console. maybe I'm not a console person since I only bought a 360 and a psp up till now and lol both of them r collecting dusk right now in my room beside my tv. but really whats the point for playing a game if we not talking about graphic? PC will over perferm all the next gen console no matter what, either I read ur link or I dont cause it wouldn't make much difference, matter effect time :). with 8000 series out direct x 10 up on approch why are we still arguing on a freaking console and trying to prove this and that. Dont mind me this is just my opinion. Posted by: M3Cosmos If any of you cannot form complete, correctly spelled sentences with proper syntax, I suggest not posting because you are wasting my time. Thank you. Posted by: killians45 *SIGH* Ok, what I am pointing out, Orangedude, is the fact that you are claiming something that is NOT defendable because there is NO way to prove it because the needed components hardware/software is NOT available yet. PLUS, developement cycles for these new consoles will peak in around 3 years or maybe more because of the radical architecture. When something this different comes out, developement doesn't just appear with the advantage of taking full use of the hardware. Much of the hardware and power hasn't been touched yet, either because of time constraints (takes a good amount of time to assign and organize the shift of hardware threads in programming) and as more and more experience is gleaned, the hardwares power will finally come into realization. Your rant, for that's the most I can see it as, is unfounded, and is false. NO ONE knows what the systems are capable of because, frankly, for both MS and Sony the architecture is new and untested. So, when I say read what I posted, there is a reason for that. It is to show you that you are in error. YES the PC will overtake the console some day, and by that time, maybe a year later or so, a new console will come out that will overtake the PC for a short time and then the cycle will just keep going over and over. However, unlike a PC a consoles hardware is usually experimental, which is easier to do with a console because of standards in hardware so no "oh great, this and that isn't compatible" and that makes more room for creative design and engineering. Now I'll admit, after seeing the racing game comparisons of ridge racer between xbox and playstation I'm very disappointed in the graphics for the PS3. The jaggies are amazingly smooth and AA is amazing, however the level of detail absolutely blows. Here is the comparison: [url]http://ps3-evolution.dcemu.co.uk/[/url] So to sum it up, don't make mindless comments or you will be called on to explain and proven very wrong and your arguments inept. Posted by: TheOrangeDude I understand what u trying to say in ur post. But however I can not agree on all of it. I not a type of person who like to predict whats going to happen. I only belive the stuff I acturally see with my very eyes not the stuff I can not find prove or not yet occour but might happen in the futre. that is why I vote for pc instead of console or ps3. the link you gave yes give out alot of information about the 360 and ps3, also states that both of this machines has yet reach its fully protencial. But the question is how many years do I have to wait for that hidden protencial to be expo and even it occour and by then what the world will become? while on pc, what I see is what I get there wouldn't be a thing call hidden protencial(except ofcourse oc :D). Lets just chill and let the actural performance speak for it self in time rather then just arguing over on some statement or information. Posted by: aaronkupen Okay... saying something like what is the point of playing the games if not for graphics pretty much offends me as a gamer on all levels. That might be the least important thing I look for when it comes to games. Posted by: killians45 That's why I wan't a Wii :) looks to be a butt load of fun. Would like a PS3 but again, I just can't see how it would be in my budget right now. Plus, I need to do some PC upgrades soon. So for me, my gaming usually goes in this order: PC, 360, Wii (360 and PC neck and neck for me) Posted by: arcman This is a great writeup on the technical differences and capabilites of the PS3 vs. the 360. [url]http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1[/url] One of the more interesting points is how neither of their CPUs process out-of-order instructions, so they don't perform much better than an Athlon 64 3200 in terms of raw computational power. Posted by: killians45 arcman, very good article. haven't read it all yet but he is right now pointing out something I've been trying t ocram in other peoples heads. The architecture, not the numbers are what counts. Ill give some ideas when I finished reading it. May not be until sunday or so because about to leave from work, yeehaw! Posted by: pullyalater the only reason i am going to get a ps3 is for the blue ray and HD features. BUILT IN... the 360 requires their proprietary cable setup so you cannot use basic cables that you(customer) may allready have. thats i guess a huge pet peeve of mine. HDMI and Optical out connectors exactly the same as you see on high end players and Recievers. I build computers and wire houses... the time is coming when consoles will be so similar to pc's that there is almost no difference.... but that day is still far from here. i do like the 360 all except for proprietary BS and the fact that you have to purchase an add on HDDVD player that ould make it the same $$ as a PS3... Games aside. because halo is not going to be available on ps3. yet many other games are now going to be cross platform because they are written on regular DVD's.... Posted by: killians45 Hmmm... I wish they had gone into detail on the procedural synthesis... that is about as amazing as the unified shaders. Posted by: spartan1121 I buy consoles for games. I really don't care if sony has the better machine, the fact is i don't wanna play one player games. Playstations are for people who don't play multiplayer. Plus, halo3. And for the guy talking about how pc's are so much better because of the graphics. How about this, you can buy an xbox 360 for less than the cost of an 8800gtx. And the 360 has an r580 the precurser to the r600's(i think, if im wrong feel free to correct me). Oh and plus, halo3. I think halo2 is still the top seller in the us for games. Basically i don't wanna pay 600 bucks so i can sit at home and play final santasy, and be like "whoa i got awesome new stuff, I can't wait to show everyone on my freinds list, oh wait this is a one player game..." Posted by: killians45 K, a comment on the bluray and HD-DVD... buying a PS3 now for the blue ray use would be far to early. Now, if your buying it because bluray can hold more data, and thus larger more emersive games... think again. The games would be expensive if they got out in acceptable time constraints, and if those constraints where essentially thrown out the games would be released with already out dated engines. Posted by: haroldthesage I have heard that in theory the PS3 will be able to run the Xbox 360 and the Xbox games with the help of an emulator if you would like to show proof of this or debunk it i have another thread posted: [url]http://www.tech-forums.net/showthread.php?threadid=130541[/url] Posted by: maroon1 The PC is the best in terms of graphics then PS3, then Xbox360, then wii is the worst. PC > PS3 > Xbox360 > Wii Posted by: aaronkupen From what I know through a lot of articles and technical write ups.... the Xbox360 is more powerful in terms of graphics. Posted by: killians45 Yep. The PS3 is good for vertices and geometric figures, but the 360 dances circles around it in terms of detail. Plus, it is capable of 4x AA and 1080p easier than the PS3. Reason being is because of the 10mb memory on the chip for instruction handling. You can set the AA and res to 1080p and it handles the rest without touching the processors. Posted by: joshshift [IMG]http://www.gamebrink.com/forums/phpThumb.php?src=/forums/imgcache/8979.imgcache[/IMG] Posted by: TheEnd187 xbox 360 can not display full 1080p!!!!! due to lack of any hdmi ports and thus making it max out at 720p, and the only reason that the ps3 games lok just like the 360's is because its the devvelopers ie ea doesn't want to make 2 ports of a gameon two systems with different shaders textures and programming they are just to lazy and are "like lets just make dumb down the ps3 version to xbox standards because the xbox is limited to 9gb per game lol" thats why they look the same and that HD dvd player for the xbox is just dumb because it will no even be in true hd gay!!!! and it can't play games from it lol and you have to pay 100 bucks if you want your xbox to go wi-fi rofl i've seen the xbox360 and ps3 in action simultaniously in action on same games and it looked that the developers had to dumb the games down because they were too lazy Posted by: killians45 wrong. it can. I've already compared the two, and details the 360 wins hands down. however, vertices... the ps3 has that one. as far as the programmers, it doesn't take much to update, its mostly upto the artists and renderers. please, research your comments. they had just as much time to do ridge racer on both platforms, so they are both first gen titles and the 360 looked more detailed, although the edges are smother on the PS3. So smoother edges on the PS3 and much more detail on the 360. If you need me to explain why in more detail, let me know I can oblige. vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2003, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. PPC Management vB Easy Archive Final - Created by Xenon |