[mac vs pc questions] -
mac vs pc questions
Discuss mac vs pc questions
Posted by: rmcelroy
i have a pc and i dont know much of anything anout macs.
i am trying to get a job somewhere else, but the catch is, they are going to be primarily workin with macs...
i was wondering, what are the primary differences between a mac and a pc.
i know the OS is different, Macs use a Unix based OS, but i am primarily concerned about the hardware aspects.
how is the hardware of a mac different from a PC? are there some good places to find pics of the inside of a mac?
Posted by: mrdinkel
The new G5 Powermacs run off of the IBM something or other chip. I believe the older macs run off of a motorolla processor.
IBM-compatible computers use a completely different architecture designed by AMD and Intel.
This is a good demonstration.. and I'm an IBM Fan :D
[url]http://www.apple.com/g5processor/architecture.html[/url]
There are essentially two common threads between mac and IBM : they both CAN run programs written in Unix, (a little bit of recompliling) and they can interchange Microsoft Office Suite Files.
Posted by: rmcelroy
thanks. i think what i really need to do if find a mac and open it up to see what i really wanna know.
so im assuming that you cant buy pc parts and build a mac then, huh? the hardware is completely different...
is there anywhere you can go to online to buy individual mac parts if you wanted to build your own?
Posted by: g5orbust
Mac hardware and PC hardware are very similar, and in most cases exactly the same. Macs use industry standard RAM, hard drives, optical drives and video cards (some of which are just firmware flashed versions of their PC counterparts and some of which are modified versions that have ADC (Apple Display connector) soldered onto the PCB).
PC parts cannot be used to build a Mac machine and spare Mac parts to build your own are very hard to come by within a reasonable price margin (sometimes so expensive that buying a new mac is cheaper).
Posted by: rmcelroy
so if i had one that used standard ram, hard drive, optical drives, and video card... then the only difference in hardware between the mac and a pc would be the motherboard/processor?
is that correct? so technically, i could just take the motherboard/cpu out of my pc and replace it with a mac mobo, and i would have a mac then? or am i way off?
also, is there any OS X emulators or other mac OS emulators i can run on my PC to get a feel of what a mac would be like?
Posted by: g5orbust
[B]so if i had one that used standard ram, hard drive, optical drives, and video card... then the only difference in hardware between the mac and a pc would be the motherboard/processor?[/b]
You could do that, but Mac mobos dont use standard motherboard mounting points, so unless you have enough skill to drill new ones on your case, I think you should stay away from that. Also, I dont think they sell many[b] working[/b] mobo/proc combos from recent macs. Most people just sell the whole package. If you found a bare mobo with at least a 1GHz G4 in it, then youd be in business.
[b]
is that correct? so technically, i could just take the motherboard/cpu out of my pc and replace it with a mac mobo, and i would have a mac then? or am i way off?[/b]
You could, but see my above comment. Also, mac internal optical drives are the same as PC ones, but dont have the same firmware as required by the OS. The only ones that do are the Pioneer DVD burners (A03 onward), though I have heard of people putting other optical drives in the second bay of their G4 towers and having them work without a problem. What you would most want is something that works in iTunes (if it works there, it works throughout the system).
[b]
also, is there any OS X emulators or other mac OS emulators i can run on my PC to get a feel of what a mac would be like?[/b]
No mac emulators, but there are many windows XP skins available that mimick the MacOSX environment (including Dock and most recently Exposé). While they add no mac compatability what so ever, they do add the look of the OS to your windows system.
Posted by: rmcelroy
thanks, you've been very helpful :)
Posted by: g5orbust
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rmcelroy [/i]
[B]thanks, you've been very helpful :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Anytime.
If you have any more questions, I must ask you to post them in this thread. No use in cluttering the subforum with new question threads when you have a broad topic question thread right here. :cool: :)
Posted by: rmcelroy
por supuesto, señor!
Posted by: rmcelroy
ok...
i think i have one more really stupid question concerning this topic...
if you had a machine that had a Mac mobo and processor, but all the other parts were PC like the hard drive and ROMs ect... like we were tlaking about there... could you install windows and run windows on it?
or
could you install OSX on a PC?
if not... then why?
Posted by: g5orbust
[b]
if you had a machine that had a Mac mobo and processor, but all the other parts were PC like the hard drive and ROMs ect... like we were tlaking about there... could you install windows and run windows on it? [/b]
No. Mac proprietary hardware will not work with any version of Windows that is currently available to the general public.
[b]
could you install OSX on a PC? [/b]
No. No proprietary Apple software, unless specifically made into a separate PC version, will work on Windows. You could, however, install OS X's underlying framework, Darwin, and compile it for use on your PC. But that would give you nothing of the OSX GUI nor anything else that makes OS X functional, including Macintosh only software support.
[b]
if not... then why? [/B]
They are two companies that arent really keen on the idea of making their main software/hardware available for use with the other.
Posted by: mac_mogul
However, with a standard Mac, with standard Mac parts and a Mac OS, you [i]can[/i] run the Windows OS through Microsoft's Virtual PC software. It allows you to run both Windows and Mac programs on the same machine(so long as the machine is a Mac:)) To see a demo, click [URL=http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx?pid=virtualpc&page=demo]here[/URL]
Posted by: rmcelroy
not THAT is friggin sweet!
so with that software, you can run any PC application?!
Posted by: /.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mac_mogul [/i]
[B]However, with a standard Mac, with standard Mac parts and a Mac OS, you [i]can[/i] run the Windows OS through Microsoft's Virtual PC software at speeds that approach turtles for super velocity. It is always better to use a native processor than trying to emulate it. Emulation is always buggy and is much slower than running it natively. "MAC OS Carbon" anyone? [/b][/quote]
[size=8]fixed[/size]
Posted by: g5orbust
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by /. [/i]
[B][size=8]fixed[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]
Good fixing job. :-)
And rmcelroy,
You can run any PC software, just it wont run very quickly. Also VPC only recognizes up to 16MB of VRAM, regardless of your hardware.
Posted by: rmcelroy
Ahh... ****
definately not good...
nvr mind...
you see, you gotta understand. I am a gamer.
The primary reason I own a pimped out bad assed computer is to run high end games... so, when i hear that a mac has this super good performance, it impresses me. and the fact that i might be about to get a job dealing with macs, well, that makes me wanna learn more about them.
i was starting to think about buying a mac, but i also hear they cant run a lot of games... thats not good for me... i really dont plan on going into any graphic editing... soo... i really dont need a fast speed demon machine, unless its for games...
now if it turns out that the emulation software really does suck *** like you guys say it does, well then i would supopse that i am back at square one then, eh?
Posted by: mac_mogul
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rmcelroy [/i]
[B]i was starting to think about buying a mac, but i also hear they cant run a lot of games... thats not good for me... i really dont plan on going into any graphic editing... soo... i really dont need a fast speed demon machine, unless its for games...[/B][/QUOTE]
Now THAT is a mistake commonly made. Sooo many people were told by one person that Macs 'don't play games' and I'm here to tell you that they do! Nearly every game on the PC market is also available in a Mac version. But the only reason PC people don't want to believe this is because you would actually have to go out and look for this game instead of borrowing it from a friend :sigh::p
But even on my [outdated] iMac G3, I've got nearly 32 games in total. And the newer the Mac, the more games that are capable of being played on it.
And the whole 'graphic editing' thing... People say the Macs are better for graphics and photos than PC's... true in some instances... but not always.
And my advice to you is: If you're going to be working on a Mac, you shouldn't bother buying yourself the 'best' mac available, where as the place you work will probably have adequate macs. But to familiarize yourself with the OS and for tinkering, I would highly suggest buying an older Mac (Power Mac G4 or G3, or anything with dual boot capabilities and expandability) This way you can 'fiddle' with your machine, and then go to work and know what you're doing.:)
And the only reason I say this is because it appears you already have a 'gaming' machine(of which I saw and liked!:)) and don't really need one with lesser game availability/performance.;)
Posted by: ekÆsine
interesting topic. i didn't know you could play the same games on macs. i didn't even know macs have the same video hardware as pc.
Posted by: g5orbust
Macs have plenty of games. Most brand name titles are on it, including the upcoming UT2k4.
Check out the Apple.com store game section for more details (Id link it, but it always times out.)
Also, Macs use all the same graphics technology as PCs, but the cards are just a tiny bit altered to make it so PC branded cards wont work in Apple computers. The highest Apple vid card is currently the radeon 9800 pro.
Posted by: rmcelroy
oh, ok... so the whole "macs dont play well with games" thing is just a sterotype then... ok...
hate to do this on a mac forum... but in case you guys havent seen this cute little clip... here is why a lot of people think that macs arent gaming machines:
just check out the clip [URL=http://www.redvsblue.com/appleswitch.shtml]here[/URL]
Posted by: g5orbust
[B]oh, ok... so the whole "macs dont play well with games" thing is just a sterotype then... ok...[/b]
Yeah thats a pretty old stereotype for macs. Kind of like that Megahertz Myth campaign (doesnt apply anymore now that AMD is making super efficient chips that are clocked like Apple's but perform better). I may be a mac lover but Im not ignorant to real world proof like some mac heads are.
[b]
hate to do this on a mac forum... but in case you guys havent seen this cute little clip... here is why a lot of people think that macs arent gaming machines:
just check out the clip [URL=http://www.redvsblue.com/appleswitch.shtml]here[/URL] [/B]
HAHAHA! That clip was great! Any more where that came from?
Posted by: rmcelroy
that's the only mac spoof ive ever seen, but if you are into playing Halo, that site hosts a series called red vs blue which is a hilarious halo comedy.
i think they are right around episode 22 now though, if you are interested in seeing them, you would probably have to look em up on file planet. but i would recommend checking an episode out to see if you like it.
Posted by: ToGoodforFattys
macintoshes are too west coast german for my taste
Posted by: Win2kpatcher
Macs will always come in 2nd place when it comes to video games ;-) I say this because you cant download any mac games off the net..lol.
Posted by: mac_mogul
Ha ha! That's what you thought!
[url]http://www.ambrosiasw.com/news/[/url]
[url]http://www.macgamefiles.com/[/url]
:p
Posted by: g5orbust
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Win2kpatcher [/i]
[B]Macs will always come in 2nd place when it comes to video games ;-) I say this because you cant download any mac games off the net..lol. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ever heard of Bit Torrent? Slow but its got almost all of em. Ambrosia SW, like mac_mogul said, makes some premo games that are classics (like Maelstorm and Escape Velocity). But, obviously, it shouldnt matter, because you should be buying all your games from a store...because I do...seriously...*dodgy eyes*.
Posted by: Cherubimon_3.20
I heard that viruses are hard to make for Macs becuase they dont let you view code. Macs are also good for photo editing.
Posted by: g5orbust
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Cherubimon_3.20 [/i]
[B]I heard that viruses are hard to make for Macs becuase they dont let you view code. Macs are also good for photo editing. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thtas not entirely true. Macs are pretty easy to write virii for if you know wht to hit and how to hit it :). But in any case no one would really bother writing one because there really arent that many Apple users out there to do damage compared with PC users, which are more common and more suceptable to attack.
Macs can photoedit, but the higher end x86 chips have dethroned PPC chips for top dogs of the photo editing market (photoshop bench scores, not real life usage marks)
Posted by: Qiranworms
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Cherubimon_3.20 [/i]
[B]I heard that viruses are hard to make for Macs becuase they dont let you view code. Macs are also good for photo editing. [/B][/QUOTE]
There are other reasons that viruses are actually harder to write for Mac. Mac OS X doesn't have various lists of programs to load on the startup. A program can't just put its name into a registry saying that it is to load whenever the system loads. Windows definetly has some security and design flaws that make it more virus ready the Mac OS X. I'm not sure if X is this way, but in Linux, most of the things a virus will do will require root privaliges. Unlike Windows XP which just has Admin accounts and Limited accounts, Linux will have one root and then accounts with various customizable levels of control. Most normal users would never do their regular work in root...which is used for driver installations, system file editing, etc. On the other hand, in Windows most normal users keep admin privilages to use in their main account because the limited user account can barely do anything at all. I'm not sure what OS X has in terms of a root admin and such...but if it does, then viruses are much harder to set up.
Posted by: g5orbust
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by qiranworms [/i]
[B]There are other reasons that viruses are actually harder to write for Mac. Mac OS X doesn't have various lists of programs to load on the startup. A program can't just put its name into a registry saying that it is to load whenever the system loads. [/B][/QUOTE]
Not exactly. May I point you to this system prefs menu pane:
Posted by: Qiranworms
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by g5orbust [/i]
[B]Not exactly. May I point you to this system prefs menu pane: [/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly. There is one place for all. In Windows there seem to be several locations and options where a program can set itself to be launched at the next startup.
Posted by: Dimitri
uhhh... heres another thing.... most script kiddies/black hat havkers/programmers i know USE WINDOWS OR LINUX... Who using a mac OS is going to program a virus? Who using osX knows how to? Macs are for users, not hackers. Windows security IS a joke though, ill give u that much... links...
[url]http://www.hackthissite.org/readarticle.php?id=1110[/url]
hts, source, very useful in understanding how it works, id have no idea for mac
im fly-47, lousy, havent hacked in while :(
lol
hope this helped
Dimitri
i mean, i'm not a mac user, so id have no frigin idea where to start making a virus on that, but linux, or win pul up my C++ perl, reef, lisp, Java, (diff) lol
i think i already nailed it, but i dont think as many mac users would make viruses and Win or Lin users
Posted by: Qiranworms
Dimitri, a large reason that hackers and virus makers might not want to use Mac OS X is because chances are they are creating viruses for or hacking people who probably will use Windows. Don't discredit the knowledge of OS X users...realize that there are always computer knowledgable people using any given OS and that just because someone doesn't hack/make viruses does not mean they cannot.
Posted by: Dimitri
u know any mac hackers?
from what ive seen most mac users are all about graphics and pretty desktops, not real comprehension of the OS.
Dimitri
Posted by: Dimitri
if u dont understand an OS, ur a slave to it, it can take advantage of u, if fact i herd that ms is putting some kind of spyware in longhorn to monitor activities of users.. U know what im saying?
Posted by: Ty_Die_Jedi
apple computers are my favorite
Posted by: Ty_Die_Jedi
one question y do they not make good games for mac platform
Posted by: mac_mogul
They [i]DO[/i] make good games for the Mac, but you just have to know where to look. Either an Apple store, or a Magazine.:)
Posted by: g5orbust
[i]Originally posted by Dimitri [/i]
[B]u know any mac hackers?[/b]
Yep.
[b]
from what ive seen most mac users are all about graphics and pretty desktops, not real comprehension of the OS.
Dimitri [/B]
Most Windows users are like that too.
Posted by: Dimitri
true, i use knoppix :)
Posted by: Qiranworms
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dimitri [/i]
[B]if u dont understand an OS, ur a slave to it, it can take advantage of u, if fact i herd that ms is putting some kind of spyware in longhorn to monitor activities of users.. U know what im saying? [/B][/QUOTE]
Most Windows users don't understand their OS either. In fact, since OS X, there are actually plenty of UNIX geek types using Mac. I'm quite sure most people who use the terminal in Mac OS X understand the OS.
[QUOTE]
from what ive seen most mac users are all about graphics and pretty desktops, not real comprehension of the OS. [/QUOTE]
Most Windows XP users aren't about all about real comprehension of the OS either. The people who are REALLY into the OS itself will use some sort of Linux distro. And as I said above, the UNIX terminal is used by plenty of people...which proves that there are Mac users who know the OS. There are newbies and experts in both operating systems. Except perhaps Linux...which seems to filter out the newbies with daunting setups.
[QUOTE] true, i use knoppix :)[/QUOTE]
So do I...the whole full-OS bootable CD thing is brilliant. And it works flawlessly. Perfect way to test a new system without any time consuming installations just to find out what something is wrong. And it is well setup...so much so that I did an HD install to replace SuSE 8.6...it was just...better.